From: "L. Detweiler" <ld231782@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 93 22:32:10 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: more deranged lunatic ravings -- just delete 'em!
Message-ID: <9309190530.AA15035@longs.lance.colostate.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



 From: "Perry E. Metzger" <pmetzger@lehman.com>
>Why all this silly speculation? We will all know the complete answers
>soon enough. There is no need for us to reach out and "investigate".

ah yes, just like everyone 'soon enough' knew the 'complete answers' behind
the Steve Jackson Games investigation. All we have to do is sit around and
wait for it to be handed to us by everyone involved, including The Enemy.

Look at that E911 investigation -- this was an example of *community* 
involvement. Laywers on *both* sides were unaware of the fact that E911
documents were publicly available, that they could even be *ordered* from
Mountain Bell with no restriction, until someone 'out there' made the link
and pointed it out -- and this was a *very* significant aspect of the
defense case.

>"We" need no information. We are not the attorneys. EFF and the rest
>are involved and have fine lawyers and investigators. Anything "We"
>uncover will be useful only for personal amusement. 

the situation *directly affects* us *now*. what is the scope of the grand
jury investigation? could it potentially be *expanded* beyond this initial
inquiry? what about sites that are currently distributing PGP outside the
U.S.? what about the fact that cypherpunks have *always* been closely
involved with PGP and its international distribution?

>"We" don't even
>have our facts right -- the "NSA" has not been directly harassing
>ANYONE. 

say *what*?! Grady Ward has been posting for over a week on a bazillion
Usenet groups that Agent X from the NSA has contacted him, with a phone
number, fax, and identification standard for NSA employees (I forwarded one
of his early messages here). A representative from Austin Code Works informed 
a Cypherpunk (who wasn't afraid to do a little poking around himself) 
they have been prodded by the NSA months prior over DES export. And 
"the NSA has not been directly harassing ANYONE." well, yes, I guess 
they haven't stuck anybody on the rack, if that's what you mean.

>I'd calm down, Mr. Detweiler. Write some code -- its a productive
>persuit.

ah yes, I'm 'persuing' the sequels to PGP and Moby Crypt right now <g>

you seem to be fundamentally averse to excitement. this is the Cryptographic
Case of a decade, and we're all to just wait patiently for the bleached 
official reports prior to a proper, dainty discussion? not I.

but in deference to you, Mr. Metzger, and others, I will not post any more 
speculation ...  without some new juicy articles to speculate on :)