From: nate@VIS.ColoState.EDU (CVL staff member Nate Sammons)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 93 08:59:10 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks Mailing List)
Subject: Stupid childish crap cluttering the list
Message-ID: <9310251555.AA13635@vangogh.VIS.ColoState.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


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Hello, out there?

The list is getting really badly cluttered with all this "lets rag on
LD since he doesn't agree with us" shit.  "Operation Medusa" -- come on, 
it was a little bit funny for a while, but I think that you can find better
things to do with your time than dedicate yourself to the annoyance
of someone, based on the fact that they hold different views about certain
topics near and dear to the hearts of some subscribers.  Some of us are here
to try and change things -  remember that clipper thing that so many (I think
it damn near all of us) of us were up in arms about?  It's still out there.
LD is not the enemy, he's just one of us who holds a different view...
So what if he thinks there should be no pseudospoofing.... let's kill him?
I think not.

I think that most of the list is in agreement with the idea of _not_
requiring signatures on messages.  Fine.  There, that's it.  Done.  Some
of us, me included, try to sign mail whenever possible.  Maybe it's
to set an example, maybe it's just to verify that we are who we say we are.
I even sign some of the mail that doesn't go to the list, just to get people
to ask what the hell it is -- it's raising the public awareness.  But,
I digress.

LD has told me that he is leaving the list.  Some of you may cheer, some
(the more intelligent of you, IMHO), will mourn the loss.  LD could,
at times, rant a bit, but he was a contributing member of the list.  He
had _many_ good things to say, and he is a very dedicated to privacy
(read the "Privacy and Anonymity on the Net" FAQ?) and changing things.

It _really_ pisses me off to see the little armchair Cypherpunks all gang
up when they see someone down.  "Oooo, oooo, LD's not in good favor
with the rest of the guys, let's lick 'em"  Sounds like a bunch of fucking
Beevis and Butthead fans (pardon my french).  Maybe if you guys were 
spending more time writing code or making the public more aware of what
the problem is and who's here to fix it, you wouldn't have the time to
organize campaigns for annoyance.

For a while, everyone thought that LD was objecting to people being able
to post anonymously (wheather it be through anon.penet.fi or bounced
off of a remailer)... that was not (I believe) his point.  He objected to
people posing as other people (who had established reputations, etc).
He wanted to outlaw (in a sense) this act.  I disagree with him here, 
since I cannot think of how to absolutely outlaw it (since saying "don't
do that, it's against the law" seldom works), but I can think of how
to prevent it.  Sign messages.  Don't do it if you don't want to, and don't
complain when people spoof as you because you don't ever sign the messages.
I agree with LD on the idea that posing as someone else with intent to
confuse (LD's "evil black posts" as he calls them) is wrong.

If you are trying to pursuade someone (or confuse them), you should
be smart enough to do it by being anonymous (again, through anon.penet.fi or
through a remailer) or by being yourself.  You should not need to hide 
behind someone else's identity.

Well, there's my opinion, please get off the subject of ragging on LD,
and get back on the track of changing the world.

- -nate

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