From: danisch@ira.uka.de (Hadmut Danisch)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 94 14:10:21 PST
To: pmetzger@lehman.com
Subject: Re: Oh No! Nazis on the Nets
Message-ID: <9402102154.AA09132@deathstar.iaks.ira.uka.de>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Perry E. Metzger says:

> Incorrect. Those who do not understand freedom think that by
> oppressing Nazis and preventing them from speaking you have somehow
> protected freedom. However, in doing so, you have used the methods of
> the Nazis. 

If a murderer tries to kill you and you have a gun, you will shoot
back, I assume, even if you use the same method as him.


> You can fight Naziism by spreading information about the evils of
> Naziism. 

I wish it were true. They were trying this for many years. We all thought
that Naziism will never come back because the lesson (WW II) was big enough.
But it didn't work as you can see in the news magazines. 

What do you believe, is it a good idea to publish software like PGP
if it is used by the Nazis to organize their work?




> You can fight it by vigorously prosecuting those who commit
> acts of violence. 

If you can get them...



> 
> > I'm sure that american press freedom is not better than german ones.
> 
> Untrue. In the U.S., I can start a newspaper without any licenses from
> the Government, and I can print anything I wish in that newspaper
> without fear of government prosecution. (I might be sued by a private
> party for libel if I intentionally lie about someone, but thats quite
> different.) In Germany, I cannot just open a newspaper and print, say,
> Nazi editorials in it.

Untrue. In Germany, I can do the very same. And I do not get
sued by private party with lawyers who want to get some millions
of dollars. And whether you are allowed to open your Nazi editorial
depends on what you understand under "Nazi".

In this discussion "Nazi" is everything from an idea to settings buildings
on fire. If I say allow, they say I would allow killing people. If I forbid,
they say I forbid to publish ideas. Tell me what is "Nazi" in your argument.



> > Seen from Germany, american presidents elections look like a mixture
> > of a football game and a tv show.
> 
> Yes, but that is a statement that the press in the U.S. is bad, not
> that it is unfree. Freedom and quality are orthogonal.

Untrue. A press without freedom can't be good. And if your press is bad
and not interested in publishing anything real, then of course you don't
need to control it. But this is neither freedom nor quality.


> > In Germany I can get my Cryptosoftware from whereever I want,
> 
> Actually, you can do that here, too. We just cant send the software
> overseas.

I can publish everything about Cryptography and publish it everywhere
over the world.

I can publish newpapers with nude girls on the front. Is this possible
in your country?

As far as I know in your country a lot of things are controlled by
religious groups. Is this freedom?


Hadmut