From: erc@s116.slcslip.indirect.com (Ed Carp [khijol Sysadmin])
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 00:08:27 PST
To: rishab@dxm.ernet.in
Subject: Re: PFF's Magna Carta and the new netserfs
In-Reply-To: <gate.ywRkZc1w165w@dxm.ernet.in>
Message-ID: <m0rYr8r-0004IhC@s116.slcslip.indirect.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


> I've never figured out why governments are made out to be so bad; guns, ok,
> but the problems of privacy we face on this list have little to do with that.
> Corporations can be at least as bad - extreme government leads to socialism,
> which often retains some form of citizen-participation in decision-making;
> the corporate state, though, is exemplified in fascism, inherently much less
> concerned about citizen's rights.

Extreme government leads to totalitarianism, not socialism.

Governments as a whole are seen to be "bad" because they invariably undermine
the right of the individual to make choices for themselves.

> As many of us have argued, in what is sometimes called a 'post-capitalist'
> economy, (intellectual) property rights will not be enforceable. They may

And why should they?  After all, property rights are founded on a belief in
scarcity, which is a total fear-based illusion.

> be respected often - but then that requires no laws; after all no one had
> tried to rob Phil Zimmerman of his (only recently trademarked) 'PGP'. Those
> who depend too much on enforced rights will not survive. I've discussed in
> my column, Electric Dreams, and on this list the shift in economic structure
> that will have to take place - cooking-pot markets, knowledge exchanges etc;
> concept patents enforced by net.cops are most certainly 'Second Wave thinking!'

And there are certain areas of society that this scares, and who are already
making steps to stop it and clamp down. Where do you think all the scare
stories about "kiddie porn" and such on the net are coming from?

> > This said, it is essential that we understand what it really means 
> > to create a Third Wave government and begin the process of transformation.
> 
> 'Third Wave' is such a lovely phrase that it is all too easy to hand wave 
> opposing beliefs and concerns - "that's Second Wave thinking." Reminds me of 
> the Freudian defense against Jung - "Ah, Jung was sexually repressed as an 
> infant and therefore jealous of his mentor's open emphasis on id..." - 
> solipsism is great for argument, but does little to elicit the truth.

The so-called "Third Wave" has nothing to do with government and everything to
do with the empowerment of the individual.  Some seem to not recognize that.

> > [  There you have it. The American Dream and frontier
> > [  competitiveness lead us inevitably to the following
> > [  mandate for cyberspace:
> > [        (1) strong private property rights
> > [        (2) infrastructure to be owned by an
> > [            unregulated private monopoly
> > [        (3) investment to be written off rapidly
> 
> Those who remember their history will note that the original Magna Carta was
> not a pact that distributed power from a King to the people, but to a feudal
> nobility - the rest of us, netSERF on!

This has always been the case throughout history - the forces of dark, of
disinformation, have always attempted to keep true power from the hands of
the people.
-- 
Ed Carp, N7EKG    			Ed.Carp@linux.org, ecarp@netcom.com
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