From: erc@s116.slcslip.indirect.com (Ed Carp [khijol Sysadmin])
Date: Mon, 30 Jan 95 23:44:57 PST
To: rfb@lehman.com
Subject: Re: PFF's Magna Carta and the new netserfs
In-Reply-To: <9501301729.AA10636@cfdevx1.lehman.com>
Message-ID: <m0rZ2mP-0004INC@s116.slcslip.indirect.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


>     From: "Ed Carp [khijol Sysadmin]" <erc@s116.slcslip.indirect.com>
>     Date: Mon, 30 Jan 1995 01:07:21 -0700 (MST)
>     
>     > I've never figured out why governments are made out to be so
>     > bad; guns, ok, but the problems of privacy we face on this list
>     > have little to do with that.  Corporations can be at least as
>     > bad - extreme government leads to socialism, which often retains
>     > some form of citizen-participation in decision-making; the
>     > corporate state, though, is exemplified in fascism, inherently
>     > much less concerned about citizen's rights.
> 
>     Extreme government leads to totalitarianism, not socialism.
> 
> This statement, as well as the one to which it is a response, confuse
> decision making forces in government and government control of
> economic forces.  Democratic socialism, totalitarian socialism,
> democratic capitalism and totalitarian capitalism are all possible, at
> least theoretically.  Moving beyond theory, one could easily claim
> that no truly {democratic,totalitarian,capitalist,socialist}
> society/economy has ever existed.

I'm not about to split hairs based on one's particular implementation of labels;
rather, I would say that the labels one gives to government don't really
matter.  The purpose of government is to maximize personal freedom while at
the same time minimizing the curtailment of the personal freedoms of others.
I don't think that you can have a meaningful yardstick other than this - it
covers economic as well as social issues.

>     Governments as a whole are seen to be "bad" because they
>     invariably undermine the right of the individual to make choices
>     for themselves.
> 
> Unrestrained economic powers (companies, corporations, whatever) have
> the same property.  This seemed to me to be a fundamental point that
> Rishab was making -- and one that is often ignored in discussions of
> economic libertarianism.

Agreed, but I don't see that that was the point Rishab was making.  Oh, well..
-- 
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