From: Brad Dolan <bdolan@use.usit.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 95 20:55:27 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Part IX: Allegations re Vince Foster, the NSA, and Bank Spying (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950724234854.130D-100000@use.usit.net>
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---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 1995 23:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: KALLISTE@delphi.com
Subject: Part IX: Allegations re Vince Foster, the NSA, and Bank Spying

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   Allegations Regarding Vince Foster, the NSA, and
	 Banking Transaction Spying, Part IX 

		  by J. Orlin Grabbe


July 23, 1995

Gregory Wierzynski
Assistant Staff Director
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Banking and Financial Services
2129 Rayburn Building
Washington, D.C. 20515
202-225-7502

Dear Mr. Wierzynski:

Thank you for email letter, a copy of which is attached.

I am not sure why you think my quoting selections from Mr. Jim Norman 
necessarily implies endorsement or acceptance of them on my part.  I have, 
of course, quoted many, many selections from Mr. Norman, so perhaps you 
could be more specific with respect to the ones you are concerned about.

Perhaps I could be of assistance to your inquiries among the spooks, if 
only you could describe to me which points you have investigated, and how 
you have investigated them. I certainly wouldn't want to promote anything 
that, as you say, "flied in the face of facts."  

On the other hand, I am greatly concerned about the use by Alltel 
Information Services (formerly Systematics) of a libel attorney, 
Charles O. Morgan, in an attempt to intimidate journalists and destroy 
the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.  

And I am also gravely concerned about the possible leak of U.S. codes 
and nuclear secrets to a foreign power, which is an issue of *real* 
national security concern to the U.S.  (Of course you and I both know 
that "national security" is often used to hide the truth about sell-outs 
of national security from the American people, by clamping a lid on 
the discussion or reporting of things that are common knowledge among 
U.S. military and security agencies, and even common knowledge to the 
general public of the foreign power to which these secrets have been 
compromised.)   

Before reading my email, and your letter, I sent you a copy of "Part VIII:  
Allegations Regarding Vince Foster, the NSA, and Banking Transactions 
Spying".  There you will see from the quotes that the theft of U.S. 
nuclear secrets by Israel is openly discussed in Israeli newspapers, so 
I am sure that this is not one of the "off-the-wall" issues to which 
you are referring.  (With respect to that issue, I suggest that you do 
some investigation in Tel Aviv.)

With respect to money laundering I am not concerned,  for reasons I have 
indicated in my essay "The End of Ordinary of Money",  Parts I and II,  
a copy of which I previously provided the Committee.  The money-laundering 
laws ought to be abolished, but in the meantime I do find the selective 
enforcement of these laws troubling.

With respect to "Chuck in Kentucky", I know more than one Chuck in Kentucky,
so perhaps you could be more specific which Chuck you refer to.  What stories 
did he tell you, and how is it that they didn't pan out?

Since you have already spoken to both Jim and Chuck, I am taking the liberty 
of sending a copy of this letter (and your letter) to Jim Norman, and to one 
possible Chuck you may be referring to, so that perhaps they can explain to 
me their failing to satisfy you as to the accuracy of their information.

Now, Mr. Wierzynski, I would like to bring up an issue about your Committee's 
behavior that is troubling me.  I am sure that there is an innocent 
explanation that I am missing. You will recall the meeting that I had with 
you and Mr. Stephen Ganis, the Counsel to the Committee, at the Four Seasons 
in Georgetown on Monday, June 12, 1995.  Two days previously I had been 
playing volleyball in the Mall with Dana Rohrbacher and Jack Wheeler and some 
others, and I had pulled most of the muscles in my right ankle.  So I 
asked everyone I was meeting to come over to the hotel, and you and Mr. Ganis 
graciously consented.  We met in the Four Seasons lounge, where I was the 
only person not wearing shoes.    

You told me that, more than money laundering in Mena, Arkansas, you were 
interested as to whether there were any documents connecting Vince Foster 
to Systematics, or whether I knew the name of any Systematics programmers 
that may have worked to modify the PROMIS software to spy on banking 
transactions.  I told you I couldn't recall seeing any such documents, and 
that I had come across the name of one programmer, but I had subsequently 
forgotten it.  It was a pleasant meeting, so to be helpful I gave you a 
copy of Jim Norman's *Fostergate* that had been spiked from *Forbes*.  
"Why would Steve Forbes kill the article?" you asked.  I said I didn't 
know, but that--since you appeared to know Steve Forbes--you should call 
him yourself.

Now, much to my surprise, I find that the following happened:  Just as 
*Media Bypass* was about to run Jim Norman's article *Fostergate*, they 
received a letter from Charles O. Morgan, indicating grave consequences 
if they were so foolish as to print the article. Mr. Morgan claimed to know 
what was in the article, because, he said, he had received a copy from Mr. 
Stephen Ganis of your Committee!  

I am bothered by the fact that while you alleged to me you were investigating 
Systematics that at the same time you are passing along information to 
Systematics.  I am sure there is an innocent explanation.  But consider this:  
what if I had given you Foster-related documents and the names of Systematics 
programmers?  Would these have been passed along to Mr. Morgan also?  As you 
know, a number of people connected to this whole business have died violent 
deaths in Arkansas.  (Of course, I understand some of them had already been 
paid off to keep their mouths shut, and didn't, and so--under any standard of 
morality--deserved what they got.)  

Well, things are never what they appear, so perhaps you can clear things up 
for me. Please pass along my concern to Mr. Ganis, and tell him I will be 
glad to sit down with him and have a drink, or share a line, and have a frank 
discussion about this issue. (I have nothing against the use of any drug, if 
used in moderation, and in the appropriate context.) 
   
Regards,
Orlin

Attachment:  Your letter to me
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From:   IN%"gregorw@netcom.com" 23-JUL-1995 19:53:52.82
To:     IN%"KALLISTE@delphi.com"
CC:     
Subj:   RE:  Part VII

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Date: Sun, 23 Jul 1995 16:51:04 -0700
From: gregorw@netcom.com (Gregory Wierzynski)
Subject: Re:  Part VII
To: KALLISTE@delphi.com
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Orlin --

We're reading your stuff with interest. Thank you for including me in your 
list of recipients; I pass the material on to my boss and my colleagues on 
the Committee.

I am somewhat surprised, however, that you accept the Norman piece without 
raising any questions about its sources. We've talked to Jim and tried to 
check out the sources he thought he could share with us. We have also done 
a fair amount of investigating on our own using the resources available to 
us--by which I mean officials inquiries to the spooks. So far we draw a 
complete blank. Worse, the preponderance of the evidence suggests that 
Jim's piece is pretty much off-the-wall. Worse still, it appears to fly in 
the face not just of facts, but simple logic as well. 

I haven't, by any means, given up on this subject, but pursuing a trail 
grown cold is difficult to justify when you're paid by the taxpayer.

Do you have suggestions on how we could verify some of the elements in the 
Norman story? I've talked to Chuck in Kentucky and am still in touch with 
him. But his stories have not panned out, even partially. I would be most 
interested in your ideas. 

Best regards. 
Greg

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