From: Rich Graves <llurch@networking.stanford.edu>
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:08:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Copyright fight against unauthorized racist "Zundelsite" mirrors (was Re: INTERNET FREE SPEECH WEB SITE !) (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.ULT.3.91.960201151924.11796S-100000@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


FYA.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:09:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Rich Graves <llurch@networking.stanford.edu>
To: "E. Zundel" <ezundel@cts.com>
Cc: "Declan B. McCullagh" <declan+@CMU.EDU>,
    Blake D Mills IV <blakem@eniac.seas.upenn.edu>,
    fight-censorship+@andrew.cmu.edu, sameer@c2.org, lmccarth@cs.umass.edu,
    llurch@networking.stanford.edu, webmaster@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca,
    webmaster@wiesenthal.com
Newgroups: alt.censorship, comp.org.eff.talk, alt.revisionism,
    misc.int-property, misc.legal
Subject: Copyright fight against unauthorized racist "Zundelsite" mirrors (was Re: INTERNET FREE SPEECH WEB SITE !)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Declan:

Please take down the "build your own Zundelsite" files immediately,
because it appears that they are being used improperly. Surely you do not 
want to violate Mr. Zundel's copyright.

Ingrid/Zundel:

I am pleased to hear that you do not agree with Mr. Bunkley's use of your 
materials.

You should pursue legal action against Mr. Bunkley for copyright
infringement. I think an injunction and a seizure of assets might be in
order. 

I'm serious. Think about it.

Please let us know which of the mirror sites linked by Declan are 
authorized. I know mine and Declan's were, and I assume that you approve 
of the partial IHR mirror.

Because so many unblocked mirror sites currently exist, I have restricted 
access to my mirror to stanford.edu and a few other places.

A limited number of closely controlled mirrors is certainly in your
interest, because then it wold be much easier for you to update them. For
example, your lack of control leads to the perception that well after
Nizkor responded to your call for open debate, you have still not
acknowledged their response. You look like a bunch of liars claiming that 
Nizkor won't answer you. Surely this is not what you want.

- -rich


On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, E. Zundel wrote:

> Rich,
> 
> all I can say is:  Oh, my God!
> 
> I know Rich Bunkley, but only be name and only from a few days ago.  He
> wrote us a very nice letter and wanted some additional information. We
> promised it to him, but I don't know if it has even been sent.
> 
> All I can add is that a few days ago Ernst put an editorial online that
> explained where he stood with this kind of stuff.  It is on our English
> News page.  I don't have time to do anything more except to send you the
> HTML form, but you will see that we do not condone what Joe Bunkley is
> doing.
> 
> Here is the editorial:
> 
> <strong>January 25, 1996</strong>
> <P>
> 
> <h1>Hate on the Internet</h1>
> <H3>(Ernst Zundel)</h3>
> <HR>
> 
> The last few weeks have seen a number of new "skin head" and other fringe
> group web pages appear on the Internet.  I have at first watched with
> dismay and now with horror how crude, vicious and disgusting cartoons
> appear on some of these web pages, and how others openly promote an uncouth
> and barbaric form of verbal and symbolic violence.
> <P>
> At first I thought that the electronic "counter measures" agencies of our
> opponents had put up these sites to deliberately give Revisionists,
> racialists and National Socialists a bad name.  The timing seemed to
> coincide with the Simon Wiesenthal Center's censorship efforts, as
> elaborated on in the Front Page New York Times article January 10.  The
> censors claim they want to ban "pornography" and "hate groups" from the Net
> - and what easier way to do that than to point to vulgar, smutty, uncouth
> web sites?
> <P>
> Censors are appealing to Internet providers and servers to adopt a
> "responsible citizens of the community" standard and to keep smut and hate
> from the curious eyes of the impressionable young net surfers.  We all know
> that the United States Congress is currently working on just such
> legislation, (H.R. 1555 / S. 652), as is the Canadian government and
> undoubtedly other governments around the world.  Germany's ban of
> Compuserve is a perfect example.  This is a very dangerous development for
> all freedom-loving people.
> <P>
> I have felt uncomfortable in publicly defending the free speech rights of
> Internet pornographers in the CompuServe controversy of late December and
> early January, for I abhor pornography.  Nevertheless, others abhor my
> Revisionist viewpoint and I would be loath to let them censor me.  Now I am
> even more uncomfortable with the "Hate pages" of so-called "Right Wingers"
> or "Skin Head" groups on the Internet and their foul language and vicious
> cartoons of certain racial minorities.
> <P>
> Let me state unequivocally:  I condemn and abhor this kind of material - in
> print and on the Net.  As a German person, whose ethnic group has been
> negatively stereotyped since 1914 in thousands of vicious cartoons
> depicting my people as Neanderthal brutes goose-stepping over other
> people's rights while shouting "Heil Kaiser!" or "Heil Fuhrer!"  I am
> particularly sensitive to this issue.  I have collected stacks and stacks
> of these anti-German cartoons, and I dislike intensely how they distort my
> ethnic group, particularly the World War II generation that spilled its
> blood to stop the Marxist New World Order that is now strangling freedom
> the world over with censorship measures like "Hate Laws."
> <P>
> Therefore, I appeal to all the web page owners or web masters, particularly
> those who supposedly espouse Aryan ideals or views, as well as to those who
> participate in various "alt.revisionism"-type news groups, to clean up
> their acts, to behave like true Aryans who have a long and proud tradition
> of being builders of civilization and inheritors of a great culture - and
> to stop this anarchistic, selfish and childish Hollywood-induced behavior.
> Look at yourselves and at your work!  Every time you write or talk, your
> mind if not your soul goes on parade.  Nietzsche once wrote:  ". . . There
> is filth at the bottom of their souls; and it is worse if this filth still
> has something of the spirit in it. . . !"
> <P>
> Haters who produce hate cartoons, hate literature, hate lines and hate web
> sites are what our enemies have defined us to be.  Up to now it was
> self-serving enemy propaganda.  Why hand them the "proof" with those
> disgusting images?  Why legitimize their past propaganda slogans and give
> them their very own weapons on a silver platter or computer screen?  You
> are playing right into the censors' hands.  Grow up!  It's time to grow up,
> wake up, and act responsibly!
> <P>
> Yes, to be an Aryan is a responsibility and also a privilege.  It imposes
> certain codes of behavior and ethics as well as morals on all those who
> claim to be "Champions of White Rights" or Aryan causes.  The struggle for
> survival is on.  This is no time or place for a handful of imbalanced
> people, lacking self-control and self-esteem, to lay claim to "leadership"
> roles because they can scrape the money together for a web site.
> 
> Some of you bemoan the lack of public support by our own people -
> financially and politically.  Why are you surprised when decent white
> people want nothing to do with you after they see what you do, and what you
> say and write?   I am disgusted that I have to spell out what ought to be
> perfectly obvious to normal, decent poeple.
> <P>
> The struggle to protect the majority rights or White rights in the United
> States and Canada - and, for that matter, in many other so-called
> "democratic" countries - is not fought in order to have license to hate and
> abuse people of other races but in order to love your own kind, to protect
> them, to cherish them, and to assure their future in a world where white
> people are already a minuscule minority and an endangered species.  I am
> shocked that people don't think before they act.  I am shocked and
> disgusted that grown men would not have more self-control and foresight.
> <P>
> Anybody wanting to link to the Zundelsite who has hateful material on their
> site does not have my approval.  That's final.  This is my line I draw
> today in the sand.
> <P>
> Ernst Zundel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >
> >In article <4ep2he$msc@sphinx.Gsu.EDU>, the well-known Neo-Nazi (in the
> >strictest sense of the word) gs02jwb@panther.Gsu.EDU (Joe Bunkley)
> >writes:
> >
> >>Hello Folks,
> >>       I have established a brand new page on my web site.  It's called:
> >>
> >>           "ERNST ZUNDEL AND THE WORLD WIDE FREE SPEECH CAMPAIGN"
> >>                                 located at:
> >>                   http://www2.gsu.edu/~gs02jwb/zundel.ind
> >
> >I recognize and encourage your right to speak freely, and I will link to
> >your page. However, the only thing "new" about this site is the addition
> >of more obvious lies claiming that Mr. Zundel is being censored in any
> >meaningful way.
> >
> >I *demand* that you add a link to my site, which as you know and as Mr.
> >Ernst Zundel's own press release clearly states, was the first. I will
> >continue to maintain Mr. Zundel's files in place and unmodified as long as
> >you and Zundel continue to make spurious claims of censorship, you worm.
> >
> >Lies written in ink can never disguise facts written in blood. - Lu Xun
> >
> >>If you look closely, you'll find that the REAL net censors have something
> >>in common.  This very tight knit group will deny it and will call you a
> >>"Hater" if you recognize this fundamental truth.  Are we going to let
> >>this small group of people run the Internet like they do the news and
> >>entertainment media in North America and Europe.  Let me tell you, they
> >>are sure going to try!  Only your vigilance for truth, justice, and
> >>freedom of speech and expression will stop this cabbal.  Shine the light
> >>of truth and facts upon them.  Like a fungus, their doctrines of hatred
> >>and domination cannot thrive in an environment of truth.  These sick
> >>puppies need us to stand up to their Orwellian schemes.  Only by
> >>following a truly evil doctrine of hatred for several thousand years do
> >>they maintain the audacity that they are CHOSEN to rule the world.
> >
> >Exactly. Let's put these white supremacist assholes like Joe Bunkley in
> >their place.
> >
> >>       You see folks,  your idealism and principles of fair play simply
> >>get in the way of their ultimate success.  Expressing your ideas freely
> >>on the Internet has infuriated them.  How dare you disagree with they who
> >>are CHOSEN only in their own sick minds!  This whole Internet and World
> >>Wide Web just ain't working out like they planned.  You see, the Internet
> >>is supposed to FACILITATE the creation of a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.  The
> >>inherent nature of Cyberspace has taken us in an opposite direction
> >>entirely!  It facilitates autonomy, freedom, and individual expression.
> >>Heck, Cyberspace is actually lessening their clutches upon your world and
> >>environment.
> >
> >This is what cypherpunks have known for years, you Nazi bastard.
> >
> >It has nothing to do with you, freak.
> >
> >In a truly free society, you will only be laughed at.
> >
> >Only our strict adherence to the most cherished tenets of freedom is what
> >allows people like us to tolerate people like you.
> >
> >>       The shocking truth is being learned:  WE DON'T NEED THEM; BUT
> >>THEY DESPERATELY NEED US.  Yes, they are paracites.  With our
> >>magnanimity, they may one day get over their trans-millennial delusion of
> >>ruling the world.  We can help them get over their sickness - but only
> >>when they RECOGNIZE and ADMIT they have one big bugger of a problem.
> >>That is the hardest thing for a CHOSEN ONE to do.  It contradicts all the
> >>poison these sick puppies have been led to believe about themselves.
> >>With courage and vigilance, we can lead them to the light once they admit
> >>their sickness.
> >
> >Exactly. Joe Bunkley, please tell us The Fourteen Words.
> >
> >>14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14
> >>14                                                                      14
> >>14              FOURTEEN WORDS !             |  I am sincerely yours,   14
> >>14   "We must secure the existence of our    |  Joe Bunkley             14
> >>14  People, and a future for White children."|  gs02jwb@panther.gsu.edu 14
> >>14                                                                      14
> >>14                The Coming Fall Of The American Empire                14
> >>14                     http://www2.gsu.edu/~gs02jwb                     14
> >>14                                                                      14
> >>14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14words+14
> >
> >Oh. I see that you did. Goodie.
> >
> >- -rich
> >
> >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >Version: 2.6.2
> >
> >iQCVAwUBMREteo3DXUbM57SdAQFKQwP+KHHvwVDp5QYGeQKUsuAW80PAufN1+ybK
> >iFglKGsu5khfhP+5shwo8vAwtiH9tKEOxHob/pA6e9RU/Ktn0OW+zBQFflS9y1ee
> >vPHELAN/DxihU7Wv4gAYsZW9fjC0KJbvzx8XYu7MA1po7pudMzue0bUpmoV0y/VB
> >tzDmW59FLRs=
> >=iYAQ
> >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> ***** Revisionism is the great intellectual adventure at the end of the
> Twentieth Century.
> 
> ***** Revisionismus ist das grosse intellektuelle Abenteuer am Ende des
> Zwanzigsten Jahrhunderts.
> 
> http://www.webcom.com/ezundel/english

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBMRFG1I3DXUbM57SdAQHrAwP/UTeg5XvpVrRQ8QYaaMCbOxG7TqP7KjLo
A1Q0AmBPHWkBIUDXHyRPQGMrBXDIGrZ4Brj0pv4e1aTR5qxTkLoNEajcX9Z6yhSe
nmRL6tF669369mDX/s6WvcNzBtGIQL4B5eg3UEP0Y2FWuUWjTiBOXLX2hCpRX++X
R4Mf300rIGA=
=BA6j
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----