From: "Vladimir Z. Nuri" <vznuri@netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 1996 14:02:59 +0800
To: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
Subject: NSA/ITAR
In-Reply-To: <ad7c25ce0402100464ca@[205.199.118.202]>
Message-ID: <199603252143.NAA01149@netcom17.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



TCM:

>* EXPORT OF CRYPTO BEYOND U.S.: This is indeed a thorn in the sides of U.S.
>companies, but is not _per se_ an issue I worry about. So long as I have
>strong crypto, I don't really care too much about export. It would be nice
>to get the ITARs modified, but not at the risk of adding language (such as
>Leahy did) making use of encryption a possible crime (we've debated this,
>so I won't elaborate here). Besides, I think the best way to overturn the
>ITARs is through a court challenge; as I have noted, even the NSA's lawyers
>felt that the ITARs would not withstand court scrutiny.

hmmmm, I don't recall you saying that. would love to hear more about
"NSA's lawyers feeling the ITAR cannot withstand court scrutiny".

I have been ranting at a lot of people in the companies that are showing
no spine and adhering to the odious NSA laws (thereby increasing
their legitimacy) to just SUE THE GOVERNMENT. but of course they
all retort that "gosh, we are just following the laws, we don't
really have any choice, we are doing the best we can, blah blah blah".
(this as they have armies of lawyers that they don't hesitate to 
unleash on their competitors)

frankly I think the lack of a legal challenge to the ITAR crypto laws by
a large company by this date is very suspicious. I am starting to 
wonder if whenever something like this starts to suggest itself,
the NSA agents hurriedly run to a company and make some deals & 
promises. (note I am aware of the Bernstein case-- this is just
too tiny to ever have any significance imho).

if big software companies think the ITAR is not acceptable and is
costing them bigtime, let's see them put their lawyers where their mouths 
are.

I fully agree with the above that the ITAR is unlikely to withstand
a *serious* court challenge, assuming the courts have not gone
totally comatose. the ITAR amounts to the following:
a legitimate law that says, "munitions cannot be exported. the
list of munitions is maintained by the DoJ" (or somebody-or-other).

now, somebody-or-other (obviously the NSA, through their various
front agencies, the @#%^&^*& spooks love this kind of subterfuge
to circumvent the law and pretend they are doing things legitimate)
could add "twinkies" to the list of "export controlled items". 
in fact, I wish they would. they have come pretty darn close.
it turns out that MS has been convinced that mere "export" of 
digital SIGNATURES is prohibited. I can't believe there is not
more uproar here or elsewhere about this outrageousness. 

frankly, I think the american public & software companies
are getting exactly what they
have earned.  "eternal vigilance is the price of freedom". instead
we have endless spinelessness as the response to increasing tyranny.