From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Sun, 28 Apr 1996 19:40:09 +0800
To: hochiminh@alpha.c2.org
Subject: Re: code vs cypher
Message-ID: <199604280552.WAA20878@primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


** Reply to note from hochiminh@alpha.c2.org 04/26/96  8:31pm -0700 
  
= Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com> writes: 
=  
= pm> tm> Timothy C. May writes: 
= pm> tm>  Well, I was not invited to join the elite and secret  
= pm> tm>  coderpunks list, 
=
        well, apparently that was not a problem.
  
= pm> It is neither elite nor secret. It is fairly high signal to  
= pm> noise. 
= pm> I think only about one in every fifty or so cypherpunks 
= pm> messages has any content at all worth mentioning. 
=  
= Agreed!  I wasn't "invited".  I simply requested access and 
= was quickly welcomed to the list. 
=  
        yes, and that was the intent.

	I do not think the intent of those of us who formed 
   Coderpunks "conspired to form an elitest group."  The basic problem 
   was simple --even code topics were politicized in cypherpunks which 
   resulted in scores and days of "re: " messages until someone finally 
   prefaced it with [NOISE], or changed the subject.
 
= pm> tm> but I still have some thoughts on coding and,  
= pm> tm> especially, on the opportunities offered by Java.  
= pm> tm> Sorry if this interferes with discussions of Rabbi  
= pm> tm> Heir and Morris Dees. 
=  
= pm> You have no right to grumble about the situation here. 
= pm> It is exactly what you wanted. Here you were, a person 
= pm> of some personal gravitas and moral authority, and you  
= pm> put your stamp on the "post whatever you like; don't let  
= pm> the grumbling censors stop you". Well, as you sow, so 
= pm> shall you reap. Its your fault, more than anyone else's. 
=  
= TC May was not the first person to substantialy digress from 
= chartered topics but he certainly "ran with the ball" when he 
= got his chance to expose his ignorance and intolerance of 
= other races and religions (the cypher-relevance or "charter 
= topicality of which always escaped me).  I was discouraged 
= by the encouragement given to the murder advocating moron, 
= Jim Bell to post his insance littany. 
=  
        as to jim bell, does this imply you believe in censorship?

        I think you are mistaken with your implication that tcmay is a 
   racist. Bigotry, etc. is usually created in the mind of a reader who
   jumps to conclusions.  I am somewhat older than tim, and I find the
   politically correct revisionism even more humourous (and very
   intellectually cheap):  vertically challenged, horizontally
   challenged, mobility challenged, mentally challenged, or whatever    
   the current fads are.

        and, to top it off, I am disgusted with the high and mighty 
   moralism of the revisionists. I fully agree with EEO, but I 
   thoroughly disagree with quotas and preferences.  I have more than 
   an even tendency to call a spade a spade, and I may live where guns   
   tend to outnumber our many children, but the only way a stranger can 
   be bounced from my table is to interfer with grace --and there are 
   some, as they are attending for the extra plate which is always set, 
   who would protest that my prayer offends them. does anybody still 
   have manners?

        tim finds humour in many things --and, he has the courage to
   challenge the politically correct revisonism which is being shoved
   down our throats by a bigger and bigger, but certainly not better,
   creeping vine of vipers we call our government, which is nothing 
   more than a ship of fools.

= pm> If Cypherpunks has become a cesspit, well, its YOUR cesspit,  
= pm> Tim. Its the list you always strove to create, but it appears  
= pm> that you now don't like the smell of your own wallow. Well,  
= pm> sorry. Deal with it. 
=  
= Well put, Perry! 

        well, the premise may be correct on what cypherpunks drifts 
   into with the endless political back and forth --the open forum;  
   however, the creation of the cesspit is not one party's fault  --we 
   _all_ have contributed to the problem --which is compounded by 
   direct, on-line connections.

        so, how about a little moderation in all things?




--
Overseeing first-rate programmers is a managerial challenge roughly comparable to herding cats.

cc: Cypherpunks <cypherpunks@toad.com>