From: Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li>
Date: Tue, 9 Apr 1996 10:52:06 +0800
To: jim bell <jimbell@pacifier.com>
Subject: Re: So, what crypto legislation (if any) is necessary?
In-Reply-To: <m0u66D6-0008z3C@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960408153813.398C-100000@polaris.mindport.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Sun, 7 Apr 1996, jim bell wrote:

> The following is a comment of mine that Unicorn didn't respond to.  My 
> comments are included as well. I repeat this because I just saw a quote from 
> Lysander Spooner which was appropriate under the circumstances.  Those who 
> read Unicorn's notes will notice that he frequently ignores embarrassing 
> gaffes that he makes.
> 
> [beginning of re-quote]
> 
> 
> At 08:56 PM 3/30/96 -0500, Black Unicorn wrote:
> >> Naturally, you won't address this 
> >> problem, but the man-on-the-street is more realistic about his own privacy.  
> >> How many times must I raise this issue?  How many times do you ignore it?  
> >> Face it, people are smarter than you give them credit for.  They will simply 
> >> not tolerate any more shit from the government.
> >
> >Funny, the latest primary has been one of the highest voter turn outs in 
> >quite a while (except in Deleware).  Considering those are the law-and-order 
> >types who are most likely to invade personal liberities, I think its a 
> >bit hard to make the case that the temper of the country is anything but 
> >very pro-political process.
> 
> Unicorn again displays his cluelessness.  
> 
> To put it in simple terms that even you should be able to understand, the 
> fact that a drowning person moves his arms and legs around a lot doesn't 
> mean that he LIKES to swim, it may merely mean that he likes drowning even 
> less.
> 
> [end of re-quote]
> 
> 
> Spooner's quote follows:
> 
>   "Doubtless the most miserable of men, under the most oppressive
> government in the world, if allowed the ballot, would use it, if they
> could see any chance of thereby meliorating their condition.  But it
> would not, therefore, be a legitimate inference that the government
> itself, that crushes them, was one which they had voluntarily set up, or
> even consented to."
> 
> Lysander Spooner

I didn't respond to this part originally because I grew tired of typing
"Yadda yadda yadda" everytime Mr. Bell lapsed into another
psycho-political babble session.

What this has to do with Mr. Bell's  position, that citizens as a whole had 
grown so discontented in the United States that they were prepared to rebell 
actively in large numbers, is unclear.  In fact the Spooner quote adds 
more to my position than Mr. Bell's:

"if allowed the ballot, would use it, if they could see any chance of 
thereby meliorating their condition."  

Seems that even according to Spooner, the citizens of the U.S. aren't 
hopeless yet.

In fact there is ample evidence that citizens who have come to believe 
that a sovereign is beyond redemption refuse to participate in the 
political process any longer.  Iran, Iraq, the former Soviet Union, 
Turkey, the Baltic States are all examples.

---
My preferred and soon to be permanent e-mail address:unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information