From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 19:59:53 +0800
To: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com>
Subject: Re: AP [was: Re: Kiddie porn on the Internet] [NOISE]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960923194435.15255A-100000@crl2.crl.com>
Message-ID: <32488A8F.6FF2@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> C'punks,
> On Mon, 23 Sep 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> > There is no such thing as an "ordinary citizen". When the U.S.
> > commits war crimes in Korea, Viet Nam, Grenada, Panama, Somalia, 
> > Iraq, and elsewhere,
> > every American taxpayer is an accomplice and a fair game.

> Illogical collectivist claptrap.  When a taxpayer is targeted by
> terrorists, he has been victimized twice--first by the government
> that stole his money, second by the terrorist that punished him
> for the (alleged) acts others commited with that money.  If a
> mugger buys a gun with the money he took from me, am I then
> responsible for the murder he commits with it?  Clearly not.
> This line of "reasoning" is nothing more than a sad variant of
> the old, "blame the victim" game.  For shame.
> Let's bring this back to crypto for a moment.  Dimitri's "logic"
> must necessarily lead one to the conclusion that Cypherpunks (at
> least those in the US) are responsible for whatever draconian
> restrictions "our" government puts on free speech, crypto or
> whatever.  John Gilmore, Philip Zimmermann, Whit Diffie and
> others will be chagrined to learn this, I'm sure.
> Dimitri needs to learn what it means to be an adult.  Everyone is
> totally responsible for what they do, but ONLY for what THEY do.
> No one is responsible for the unassisted, willful acts of others.

You are committing a logical fallacy with the above. You're saying that 
the mugger who commits the crime with a stolen gun is equivalent to my 
own hired hitmen (the local and federal police I pay so dearly for).

This is obviously not the case.  I didn't hire the mugger, nor did I 
encourage the thief in an overt way.  But I did consciously select and 
pay for the police and govt. assassins.  And so did you.  Unless you're 
saying that the govt. forcibly takes you down to the voting booth, etc.