From: Paul Foley <mycroft@actrix.gen.nz>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 04:03:33 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Voluntary Disclosure of True Names
In-Reply-To: <199609051749.KAA12335@netcom20.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <199609061342.BAA24447@mycroft.actrix.gen.nz>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 05 Sep 96 10:49:39 -0700, "Vladimir Z. Nuri"
<vznuri@netcom.com> wrote:

   I have seen it repeated here often that somehow anonymity is some kind
   of a "right" that one should have in all kinds of different & important
   transactions, not merely on "cyberspace debate societies". I see
   here frequently the implication that *private*entities* that want to
   enforce identity in their own transactions are somehow implementing
   a corrupt, orwellian system. it sounded to me like that was all
   Dyson was advocating.

The only time I've ever seen this point of view expressed on the list
is when you and the other tentacles claim someone else is wrong for
saying it (which they didn't, of course).

No one has ever said "private entities" shouldn't be allowed to
"enforce identity in their own transactions."  This is exactly what
Tim and others have been saying _should_ happen.  Dyson, however,
appears to be advocating some sort of identity tracking mechanism at
the network level so that _all_ transactions are identifiable (albeit
with some legal mechanism attempting to prevent "unauthorised"
identification) regardless of whether the individuals involved want to
enforce identity or not.  Identification can be proved between the
individuals concerned on a truly voluntary basis, without any such
controls on the net.

   also, I think you are being slightly disingenuous in masking your own
   and other cpunks major objections to traceability, with the above,
   "this is all we really want". what about situations
   where the government requires you to give a physical identity for
   some kind of a license etc? do you think there are no such valid
   situations? is there any role for a government whatsoever in 
   CryptoAnarchist Utopia and if so, is there any situation in which
   demanding physical identity is reasonable?

If the government, or any other entity, requires identification it can
be provided.  I'm hard pressed to think of a situation in which the
legitimate business of government (if any) actually requires
identification.  What do we need government to licence?

-- 
Paul Foley <mycroft@actrix.gen.nz>       ---         PGPmail preferred

	   PGP key ID 0x1CA3386D available from keyservers
    fingerprint = 4A 76 83 D8 99 BC ED 33  C5 02 81 C9 BF 7A 91 E8
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Paradise is exactly like where you are right now ... only much, much
better.
		-- Laurie Anderson