From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 1996 19:49:48 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: "Mormon Asshole?"  re: GAK
In-Reply-To: <k2X9uD23w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Message-ID: <199610040846.CAA00681@infowest.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In <k2X9uD23w165w@bwalk.dm.com>, on 10/03/96 
   at 07:35 PM, dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM) said:

-.attila <attila@primenet.com> writes:
-.
-.> <pro-GAK mor(m)on propaganda skipped
-.>
-.>   "The only natural criminal class in America, the U.S. Congress" >        
-.> --Mark Twain

-.Mark Twain had some very negative things to say about your criminal cult.
-.

        WRONG, read the entire article.  in the balance he was rather 
    positive in his "review" of the Mormons, particularly family life 
    and work ethic.  the first part of his rambling was critical more
    from the very negative attitude to the Mormons in MIssouri at
    the time Samuel Clemmons was growing up.  The three bloody marches
    in winter with a loss of over 6,000 lifes were less than 10 years 
    history in his childhood.

        One of our most basic beliefs in the 13 Articles of Faith
    (in addition to the ten commandments) is that we believe everyone
    should be allowed to practice the religion of their choice, any 
    religion, as they wish to observe;  we only ask the same of them.

        For instance, when the Catholic Church established a parish in
    Salt Lake City, they had no meeting place.  Brigham Young granted
    them the free use of the Tabernacle on Temple Square why they were
    raising money to build their own church.
    
        The same was true in St. George; the classic tabernacle at
    main & tabernacle was used free of charge by the Catholics until
    they were able to erect their own church, school, etc at 200 N 300W,
    two blocks down the street from Brigham Young's winter residence.

        I have never believed we have been persecuted for religion.
 
        the work ethic, and the extended 'ward' family, where everyone
    cooperated on advancing the community --for instance, one family
    took the responsibility of making soap (nasty job which takes time)
    for everyone, and so on.  This is cooperative "husbandry"/industry, 
    and it was beneficial to everyone; there are numerous others.

        even today, our wards are organized so individual families
    have a "skill" for the ward should we find ourselves isolated
    in a wall street disaster, a natural disaster, or whatever.

        do you have 3 years of food storage?  almost 4,000 lbs.
    and 9,000 gallons of drinking water for 3 years for a family of  
    5?  --that's 72,000 lbs (36 tonnes!... ) almost 10,000 cu. ft.

        we work and we share. which means prosperity, which means
    economic success, which usually means stable, cohesive politics.
    and this too often creates not only jealousy and hostility from our
    non-Mormon neighbors, but fear.  

        therefore, the basest of arguments and untruths are used 
    against us to justify the quick  annihilation of the "offenders in
    our midst."

        but what inflames the anti-mormon passions the most is the 
    paid clergy of other organized religions whose employment is 
    the paid ministry to their flock.  Mormons threaten their jobs; 
    the mormons have no paid ministry; it is all part of our 
    "callings" to do the Lord's work.
 
        The 40,000 young men and women who leave MTC in Provo, 
    and other training centers, each graduation to scatter to every
    country in the world, have earned their *own* money to support 
    themselves on their two year missions. these young men and 
    women return with unbelievably positive attitudes and the 
    satisfaction they earned the money themselves --which took 
    planning and perseverance.

        Dimitri, try reading a balanced analysis of the LDS faith, the
    teachings, and their accomplishments before you jump off and prove
    your ignorance and bigotry...  it will not harm you, and you might
    be surprised at what you learn, particularly "forgiving those who
    trespass against us."  -no retaliation.

        remember, all members are missionaries in a way; noone will
    *ask* you to join. all we do is offer you the opportunity to 
    *investigate* our beliefs and our community.  After *you* study
    the materials and ask questions, it is up to you to get on your 
    knees and ask the Lord if you should join.  We neither ask nor
    tell you you will die an agonizing death, again and again in 
    eternity, if you do not join.  everyone is there own free agent,
    and we can not influence your "free agency"  --we will not
    pursue you if your prayers are not answered; but we will still be
    you friend, and our offer to participate in our services and our
    activities is still extended.

        For instance, I will never attack you with hate speech, and 
    even my sarcasm is questionable, despite the fun a good play on 
    words provides;  you could probably snitch me off to my bishop and
    I would likely face a church council.  As a high priest, that is a 
    serious matter.

        something else you probably do not know:  we NEVER pass the
    plate at any service.  tithing is a private matter.

--
  "I don't make jokes. 
    I just watch the government and report the facts."
        --Will Rogers