From: frantz@netcom.com (Bill Frantz)
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 12:59:20 -0800 (PST)
To: snow <aga@dhp.com (aga)
Subject: Re: [REBUTTAL] Censorship on cypherpunks?, from The Netly News
Message-ID: <199611152058.MAA26315@netcom6.netcom.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


aga <aga@dhp.com> wrote:
>Let's stay on topic here -- John Gilmore is a censorous asshole
>for pulling Vulis's plug.  The topic has nothing to do with
>the Freedom-Knights.

At 12:19 AM 11/15/96 -0600, snow wrote:
>> [This is a rebuttal to a misguided news article.]
>> > Cypher-Censored
>> > By Declan McCullagh (declan@well.com)
>> >    The list is on Gilmore's machine and he can do what he wants with
>> >    it; he can moderate the postings, he can censor material, he can
>> >    shut the whole thing down. By kicking off an offending user, a
>> >    list owner merely exercises his property right. There's no
>> >    government involvement, so the First Amendment doesn't apply. And
>> >    the deleted, disgruntled user is free to start his own mailing
>> >    list with different rules.
>> 
>> Notice how, once the opposition is admitted to, the rationalization
>> begins. Suddenly this is not a matter of censorship, but of ownership.
>> Just as suddenly, the classic anti-free-speech arguments of "if you
>> don't like it, start yer own" begin to surface. (Anyone ever notice
>> how this resembles the "love it or leave it" mentality of certain
>> American patriotic organizations?)
>
>     It still isn't censorship. Censorship, at least in my dictionary, 
>refers to censor, which uses the word "Official" several times. Mr. 
>Gilmore is not an "Official" in a government sense, he maybe in the EFF
>sense, but this is not an "Official" EFF organ, so that doesn't count. 

Even more important is the fact that Mr. Gilmore did not prevent Mr. Vulis
from speaking.  No restraint on speech implies no censorship.  Therefor Mr.
Vulis was not censored.  Q.E.D.

You all are perfectly free to like or not like what Mr. Gilmore did. 
However, don't call it censorship because it wasn't.

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