From: ichudov@algebra.com (Igor Chudov @ home)
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 1996 20:54:26 -0800 (PST)
To: mccoy@communities.com (Jim McCoy)
Subject: Re: Secrecy: My life as a nym. (Was: nym blown?)
In-Reply-To: <v03007801aead576335d0@[205.162.51.35]>
Message-ID: <199611120414.WAA22624@manifold.algebra.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Jim McCoy wrote:
> >Are there other measures which parents could take while their children are
> >young to get them off to a good start, privacy-wise?
> 
> Do not declare your children as dependants.  If you do then you are required
> to get a SSN for them, but if you are willing to waive the tax savings there
> is no requirement than children have a SSN.  Not having a handy universal
> index number like a SSN makes it a lot harder for people to accumulate
> statistics on your kids.

This is an interesting topic. I apologize if my questions are too trivial,
but here they are: 

	1) Can a person without an SSN have a credit record? Some
	   may say that a credit record is a bad thing to have,
	   but I am still interested in a possibility.
	2) Will private lenders (such as credit card issuers or
	   mortgage companies) agree to extend credit to a person
	   without an SSN or to someone who refuses to give out his SSN?
	3) Will the state issue a driver's license to someone who does not
	   have/does not wish to give out their SSN?
	4) Will states' police (where applicable) approve purchases of
	   firearms if purchasers do not state their ssn (misstating it
	   may be a crime) on an application?
	5) Employers are required to pay certain taxes and therefore
	   they, in my understanding, need to know their employees SSNs.
	   How can people get around that (unless they do not need to work)?
	6) Can someone without an SSN obtain various kinds of insurance?

It is my understanding that the law does not regulate use of social 
security numbers between private parties. Businesses are free to refuse 
to do business with someone who does not present them an SSN. In real 
life, how inconvenient is life of a privacy-concerned individual?

Say, John Anonymous is a young 15 years old who anticipates to become an
engineer and have a middle class life. He wants to get married, have
children, drive a car, obtain insurance, work at some big company,
travel around the world, invest in mutual funds or buy stocks, and so
on. Reliance on government help is not important to him, so he would not
apply for an SSN solely to get Social Security, welfare and such.

His parents are cypherpunks and did not obtain an SSN for John. How much 
effort would it cost him to live a life outlined above?

Thank you

	- Igor.