From: Toto <toto@sk.sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 18:33:01 -0800 (PST)
To: Jane Jefferson <gotagun@liii.com>
Subject: Re: Dr. Vulis' social engineering experiment
In-Reply-To: <199701210118.UAA28283@rowan.liii.com>
Message-ID: <32E4477E.3F8B@sk.sympatico.ca>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Jane Jefferson wrote: 
> Also Sprach Adam Back:
> > I await with interest the last phases of Dimitri's experiment, when
> > the cypherpunks list becomes a moderated forum.
> 
> That appears to be the main brunt of his efforts, to "push the envelope"
> of free speech in order to force it's definition. Perhaps to exhibit
> the necessity for a controlling authority, and thus justify the existence
> of the various agencies which are trying to control the flow of
> information in this country and elsewhere.

  If what you say is true, then Dr. DV K's efforts are quite possibly 
the most important issue being addressed in this conference, because
behind free speech, lies the most important issue of all--when does
it start, and when does it stop.

  Cryptography, above all, enables the ability of a group or an
individual
to keep their communications secret, safe from prying eyes.
  The military-industrial complex proclaims this necessary for the
purposes of state-security, and denies that it is used in order to keep 
their 'sins' from being exposed. (If you believe this, then please 
contact me by private email regarding an ocean-front property I have
available in Tucson, AZ.  If you act quickly, I will throw in a set
of the Amazing Ginzu Knives as an added bonus.)
   The crypto-cognizant citizen proclaims cryptographical ability as
a means of empowering their rights of free speech.  The more intelligent
of them recognize as misinformation the government's feeble claims that
they cannot successfully investigate someone moving tons of illegal
drugs into the country unless they have the capacity to eavesdrop on
the private correspondences of 'all' of their citizens. (Which is the
equivalent, in my mind, of claiming that AIDS cannot be held in check
without knowing the details of all of the citizens sex-lives.)

  In short, I believe that if the issue of free speech is not one of
the central issues on the CypherPunks list, then the list is merely
one more heartless, unfeeling extension of the Great Machine which
is grinding inexorably forward toward the day when we will all have
its numbers tattoo'd on our forearms.
  As far as I am concerned, any CypherPunk who believes that the
socio/politico issues surrounding cryptography are not important
enough to be an integral part of this list is falling into the
same type of trap as those who think that they can become good
cryptographers without becoming good cryptanalysts.  Those who
seek to become merely cryptographers seem to think that 'numbers
rule'--those who seek to be able to analyze the end-result of 
those 'numbers' realize that the minds, hearts and souls 'behind'
those numbers tell the story of how people think and feel, and
the motivations behind their cryptographical intent. (And also
reveals where their vulnerabilities lie.)
  Thinking that cryptography is about 'numbers' is akin to thinking
that equality is about 'skin-color'.

> "In peacetime, a warlike man sets upon himself." -- Nietzsche

  "In times of war, a peacelike man sets upon others."
       Bubba Rom Dos

Toto