From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@amaranth.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 1997 09:40:36 -0800 (PST)
To: camcc@abraxis.com (Alec)
Subject: Re: Market Failures, Monocultures, and Dead Kids (Oh My!)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970319085818.007cf9a0@smtp1.abraxis.com>
Message-ID: <199703191146.LAA09134@mailhub.amaranth.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


In <3.0.1.32.19970319085818.007cf9a0@smtp1.abraxis.com>, on 03/19/97 at
07:58 AM,
   camcc@abraxis.com (Alec) said:


>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

>At 12:42 AM 3/19/97 -0600, you wrote:

>*|>Parents most certainly are not the only ones to determine the welfare
>of *|>their children; society has assumed a significant role and typically
>moves *|>to protect the child from the parents or from the _beliefs_ of
>the *|>parents.

>Dear whgiii,

>Children are, also, possessors of certain inalienable rights. 

>Parents have certain _privileges_ in regard to their children which others
>do not have; if the parents abuse the _rights_ which their children
>possess solely by  virtue of being humans and citizens, the state is
>obligated to intervene on behalf of the child--a citizen. In just the same
>way that if I were to threaten or batter you (or visa versa) the state
>would interpose itself to protect me.

No I totaly disagree. Parents have *Rights* in reguard to their children.
It is the STATE who has privilages and is abusing those privilages.
Children do not have the same rights that adults do under the constitution
(this is not to say that they have none). Should I be able to murder my
children because they have become inconvient? NO. Should I be able to
punish my child without fear of retribution by a bunch of nardoweller
bureaucrats who feal that a parent should never punish a child. YES!!!

>_With reservations_ I grant you parents have _great_ leeway in the areas
>of religious training, education, medical care, general child rearing
>(punishment/reward). When parents overstep either by action or neglect,
>society intervenes.

They have NO right to do so! They are my children and I will rase them as
*I* see fit, not how you see fit, not how the church or the PTA sees fit,
and most definatly not how the scumbags in Washington see fit!! (Would you
trust Ted Kenedy to rase *YOUR* daughter???).

>I _understand_ your point that in an ideal society the government would
>not intervene. At this point, though, we don't seem to be there.

It's not a matter of an ideal society as the can never be obtained due to
the fact we all have different ideals on what that society should be.  My
point is that from the dawn of time since man climbed out of the trees it
has been the parents would raised & were responcible for their children. It
has only been recient with the advent of the Socialist that the belief that
children should be raised by the STATE in cookie cutter fasion.

>Alec

>What's the point of the following? Discourse is healthy in an open system.
>Why the exclusion?

>*|Perhaps you should take your STATIST tendicies over to
>alt.hitler.fanclub *|as they are quite out of place here.

No perhaps I should have worded it better. I was tring to highligh that
such STATIST beliefs were at direct odds with the the beliefs of freedom &
privacy that the members of this group advocate. I am more than will to
disscuss this topic here as it higlight those who believe in the "cause"
and those who just give it lip service. (hopfully making a few converts
along the way. <G>)


>      
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>Version: 4.5

>iQCVAgUBMy/w7SKJGkNBIH7lAQEwpwP/UlEJbHBt6ahryC7X8tKqWssFoluJhVDa
>IIUQVCq/NkJ3Qg3LY804JNDnfgYbVFea0LY5FUiybAEDHOc0AEBRUt0ZE2ccgrt4
>sNSKPTQ27csTEljM9b6PRU4Isod6d9l10APsuUbXM/knsZeNDfbwTWsoYPl66/t1
>jbQ56j0t+vE=
>=Ju3R
>-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>MR/2 PGP Signature Check  19 Mar 1997 09:30:06
>--------------------------------------------------------------------


>File has signature.  Public key is required to check signature.

>
Key matching expected Key ID 41207EE5 not found in file
>'d:\pgp\pgp263i\pubring.pgp'.

>WARNING: Can't find the right public key-- can't check signature
>integrity.

>Plaintext filename: whgiii\3330067D

>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>MR/2 PGP Signature Check [Secondary Keyring]  19 Mar 1997 09:30:06
>--------------------------------------------------------------------


>File has signature.  Public key is required to check signature. .
>Good signature from user "Alec McCrackin <camcc@abraxis.com>". Signature
>made 1997/03/19 13:58 GMT using 1024-bit key, key ID 41207EE5
>

>WARNING:  Because this public key is not certified with a trusted
>signature, it is not known with high confidence that this public key
>actually belongs to: "Alec McCrackin <camcc@abraxis.com>".

>Plaintext filename: whgiii\3330067D

>PGPRC=1
>PGPRC2=0

- -- 
- -----------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.amaranth.com/~whgiii
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
                          
Finger whgiii@amaranth.com for PGP Key and other info
- -----------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: This marks Logical End-Of-Message. Physical EOM follows

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3i
Charset: noconv
Comment: Registered User E-Secure v1.1 ES000000

iQCVAwUBMzAlLI9Co1n+aLhhAQGi4AP/ckCYbO09aQc+0NUsGLwedQdF6xj8Ynsp
6CJ1EMm+Rf2Gu7QKVMJwMeauOG+wJoWpEAMVtwD4kg226s+vzUpCyPnnNeGpqIio
niq1c9AjgwWAqID2/9PyuZw52bv0BSxN0J25IIGcXBHClEVUv6jbU6jH8Wrg+yCJ
/95OUW0T844=
=QNgo
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----