From: Alan Olsen <alan@ctrl-alt-del.com>
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 12:38:13 +0800
To: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Subject: Re: Insults about C2Net
In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970504232234.00a71af0@mail.teleport.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19970505204654.00a86100@mail.teleport.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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At 09:45 AM 5/5/97 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>At 10:22 PM -0800 5/4/97, Alan Olsen wrote:
>
>>I really knew what specific actions caused people to have such a NASTY
>>opinion of C2net.  I have seen mistakes on their part, but nothing to
warrent
>>the kind and amount of venom I have seen from people.  Maybe I missed
>>something somewhere...  (Or is this one of those "people who disagree with
me
>>are <fill in insult here>"?)
>
>This is an easy one. The only continuing insults I see come from Vulis. No
>further explanation is needed.

I have seen the same attitude from Toto and Atilla, as well as a couple of
others.  It is not just Vulis.

>(One wonders why Vulis does not simply program one of his insultbots to
>spew out a daily insult.)

Don't give him ideas...

>I happen to believe C2Net overreacted to Vulis' slur about the quality of
>Stronghold, and I strongly, strongly believe that Sandy S. should not have
>censored the Vulis post while being an employee of C2Net (that is, he
>should have done one or more of the following: let it pass the way so many
>off the wall posts were passed, announce publically what he was doing at
>the very least, recuse himself from the decision due to conflict of
>interest, or, best of all, quit as censor).

I have my own problems with Sandy's actions in that one.  If it had *JUST*
dealt with those things that could not be handled by filters (the spam and
the anon flames), then I would have not had a problem with that.  Instead the
censorship was arbitrary and pretty heavy handed.  I do not agree what
happened, but I resist using the kind of vitrol that others seem to think
neccisary.  I just cannot see the reason for such venom in this case.

>But the C2Net flap is behind us. The continuing claims that it was C2Net
>which instructed Gilmore to remove Vulis are incorrect--Gilmore actually
>receives his instructions from the Elders of Zion, relayed through the San
>Francisco representatives of the Bilderburgers.

I thought it was the Aluminum Bavariati in league with the Build-A-Burger
Conspiracy and the Parisian Metro Gnomes.

Judging by Vulis's posts in the past, I would not trust him for ANY
information.

Vulis uses insults and personal attacks to cause emotional pain to his
percived enemies.  An example of this are his posts about Bruce Baugh.  Vulis
made all sorts of unsavory claims about Bruce that he *KNEW* were unture.  He
did it because he knew that he could hurt Bruce by doing so.  (I know Bruce
very well.  Vulis was lying and it was vindictive.  None of what he said
about Bruce was true.)  What it did was drive Bruce off of the Cypherpunks
list.  I have seen similar incidents from him.  In my view he has a great
amount of negative reputation capitol.  I have a hard time understanding why
people like Toto seem to cut him so much slack.

>As for stores asking for personal info, this is unsurprising. Fortunately,
>one can always refuse to give it, or lie, or just shrug. No laws yet demand
>this information be given (except for sales of guns and other such
>almost-contraband). Stores seek information for marketing, for decisions on
>placement of new stores (which is why zip codes are sometimes asked for),
>etc.

They claim the information is for marketing.  My dislike of marketing people
makes me tempted to give them even more bogus info...  The temptation is
difficult at times.

>"Identity is just another credential in a negotiation."

"Welcome to the Global Village.  You are number six."

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