From: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 02:55:30 +0800
To: dlv@bwalk.dm.com
Subject: Re: IRA (was Re: [CONTROVERSIAL]: A Defense of Terrorism)
In-Reply-To: <6V618D47w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Message-ID: <199706101825.TAA00741@server.test.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Dimitri Vulis <dlv@bwalk.dm.com> writes:
> Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes:
> >                               The people in NI have been there for
> > multiple generations, and probably also don't want to be relocated to
> > England.
> 
> Why is the rest of the UK obliged to cater to their desires?

Well I agree.  However I would guess that the people of NI could claim
if it suited that they _were_ english, and that the UK government was
therefor bound to provide military support, in the same way as for
borough of London say when it gets bombed by IRA.

That's socialism for you.  Say in the south of england (relatively
wealthy) we'd be better off if we didn't pay taxes to keep all the
unemployed in the north.

> What if the majority of the NI population felt that a special L1000
> poll tax should be imposed on the English, with the proceeds
> disbursed equally among the NI population?

That's called democracy you each vote to steal from other voters :-)

> >           Many of these people are English descent and their ancestors
> > where given land by the British government which was stolen from
> > native Irish about 300 years ago.  They have also intermarried.
> 
> Scottish descent, stricly speaking. Also at the rates the catholics
> are breeding, they'll be a minority soon.

I did hear that in the UK we'll all be in the minority to muslims by
2000 something for similar reasons.  (Don't have figures to back that
up, I'd guess it's exaggerated, but the trend is there, some
religions/nationalities have 6+ children each, whereas your average
honky has 1 or 2).

> > You should also realise that IRA and supporters are minority in NI
> > today, for a sense of perspective.
> 
> If you're such a strong believer in the rule of the majority :-), why
> should the NI protestants (who are a fraction of the total UK population)
> force the entire UK to do something that the rest of the UK doesn't want?

State police military is a socialist thing, the fact that they have
some claim to be english is enough justification in the eyes of
policians to interfere.  Obviously it's historical also.

IRA isn't at all popular in the UK either, peoples reactions are more
extreme than the UK military over there.  UK military is on best
behaviour, rules of engagement of no fire until fired upon, proof to
stand up in court etc.  Some soldier got tried and convicted for being
too trigger happy.  Soldiers don't like it over there, getting sniped
at, and not allowed to shoot back.  It is claimed that the military
know who all the IRA people are, but just can't pin anything on them
that would stick.  Your average UK person says: if you know who they
are why don't we send in the SAS and kill the bastards.

The IRA are a nuisance if for no other reason than they recently
altered UK law to remove right to silence because IRA suspects were
remaining silent, and with lack of evidence getting released.

So now, if you're silent, the judge can ask the jury to take this into
consideration (presumption of guilt, if you won't speak, you must have
something to hide).

Previously the converse was true, the judge was supposed to ensure the
jury understood that silence meant nothing.  You were obviously in
your best interests to say absolutely nothing.  As Duncan is fond of
pointing out, never say _anything_ to a policeman.  Your best tactic
was clearly not to even get involved in cross examination where you
could be made to look bad by clever lawyer even if completely
innocent, so no evidence, `no comment', `no comment' x 100, -> case
dismissed.

> > (I forget name, but there is a non-governmental paramilitary group on
> > other side to IRA in NI, occasionally there is rumor that British Army
> > is feeding this paramilitary organisation names of IRA suspects to
> > hit, to save them the trouble).
> 
> Is that the guys that Hallam Baker said he had asked to kill me? :-)

Guess so.

Adam
-- 
Have *you* exported RSA today? --> http://www.dcs.ex.ac.uk/~aba/rsa/

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