From: nobody@REPLAY.COM (Anonymous)
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:07:19 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: The BIG Lie (Jesus Confesses)
Message-ID: <199708110147.DAA25245@basement.replay.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




At 06:16 PM 8/10/97 +1000, you wrote:
>Is it worth noting at this point that an evangilical Christian and the 
>religious right have little in common. Evangelicals (I'm one) belive the 
>Bible to be the word of God etc.. but don't add anythign else to it and 
>certianly wouldn't force thier beliefs down your throat. They would 

Well, most evangelists don't force things down your throat.  They try to convince you to send them money to "Help" The Almighty (TM)'s cause.  Usually, that money is spent on porno mags, hookers, and booze.

>I would also have a problem with Christians controlling and censoring the 
>net. I would welcome (and do welcome) sites that which to argue against 
>Christianity. What wrong with that ?? It simply provides a forum for 
>Christians to defend thier beliefs. Besides if I censor you now because i 
>find your content un acceptable whats to stop you censoring me later when 
>your in the majority ! What utter stupidity to load the gun for others. 
>Particularly as i am a Christian I WOULD be critical of some of the 
>religious rights ideas and agendas and would happily argue from the Bible 
>that they are not a good thing.
>

Too many Christians try to censor atheist site because it defies their Almighty God (TM), and somehow clouds others views.

>I thought school pray was outlawed in the states ?? 

mandatory prayer was.

>> I have known far too many Christians who never read anything that
>> challenges their basic belief structure.  Nothing that could dare shake
>> their faith in God and the Bible.  In their isolation, they are taught to
>> believe ideas that have no rational defense.  (Like Biblical inerrancy and
>> Creationism.)  When challenged, these outcasts from reason have to rely on
>> the "moral authority" of their unseen God or other appeals to authority to
>> try and defend their irrational beliefs.
>
>Christians whould read challenging stuff. IT expands thier mind and 
>strengthens thier beliefs (Well i find it does), and in my expirence a 
>Christian who cant defend thier faith needs to learn more. Although i 
>would disagree with dismissing creationism and Biblical inerrancey. (not 
>that is is an appropriate forum for such a discussion)

Bullshit.  Most Christians I see IRL and on TV cringe at books other than The Good Book(TM).  Creationism is bullshit, God didn't make everything in 7 days, we evolved from monkeys and various others (Although many half-evolved monkeys can be seen on TV Evangelism shows and in Congress).

In order to believe in something, I need some hard facts.  I need to actually see a god (while I'm sober) talk to me and I talk back and see him actually makes things.  Unlike some of the weaker people, I can't just believe it because "anything's possible".  I can't believe it because a minister or a book tells me.  When I was around 8 years, I read this section of the bible asking questions like (it was in the back) "How do we know the bible is true?"  I was intersted, reading further, I noticed some page numbers, so I went there, finding not words of a scientist, but supposed words of god.  If god supposedly asked people to write this, and he says it's true, then that's called bullshit, because that's like someone writing a crypto algorithm, and stating it's secure even though no one else has seen it.

In short, unless I see it for myself, I won't believe it fully.  In religions case, at all.