From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:04:35 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Tim Throws a "Leaner" / Re: Tim Speaks the Truth
In-Reply-To: <199708040346.FAA26108@basement.replay.com>
Message-ID: <v03102802b00b0cf4dc3c@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:46 PM -0700 8/3/97, Anonymous wrote:
>Joichi Ito wrote:
>> As for Tim's message... I keep worrying (when I am in Japan) that I'm too
>> radical, so it's nice to hear from someone who is really hardcore to put
>> a wimp like me in my place. ;-P
>
>  Actually, when Tim puts someone in what he considers to be their
>place,
>it usually involves the purchase of a tombstone.

Actually, the trick is to avoid having the body discovered. What goes into
the 10 h.p TroyBilt Chipper/Shredder comes out not needing any kind of
tombstone at all.

Not that I have ever advocated killing mere folks like Joichi with whom I
disagree strongly. (A new quote: "Killfiles don't need tombstones.")

As for Joichi's message quoted above, he should hope to hell that he wakes
up and realizes that not even in Japan can journalists--which is what I
thought he once was, or claimed to be--serve on Ministry committees to
decide how citizen-units may communicate!

Any journalist in Europe or in the U.S. would be seen as having irreparably
compromised his journalistic objectivity by serving on such a panel! And
properly so, of course.

Joichi is of course free to compromise his would-be journalistic standards
as he wishes. We are, of course, equally free to severely criticize this
and to notify "Wired" and other such outlets of his stuff.

(How long do you think Brock Meeks could keep whatever reputation he now
has if he served as a consultant to the National Security Agency?)

>  Japanese society has long been very rule-oriented, in large part as
>a result of the country's geography, population and history.
>  A "No Farting" sign which might reek of totalitarianism when placed
>on the open range, might well seem less so when placed in a two-man
>tent occupied by six people. Environment, geography and the history
>of a a country, society and its people, all play a part in the degree
>to which an individual will view their personal position in regard to
>the society and government around them. And each will perceive the way
>in which they feel they can best promote their beliefs within their
>society and government.

Whatever. A good friend of mine just got back from 10 years in Japan
(Tsukuba and Tokyo), and has filled me in on the "nail that stands up"
stuff. It's hackneyed.

The point is, if Joichi Ito wants to ever be taken at all seriously, as a
reasonable objective reporter of what is happening, his co-opting by the
Japanese Self Defense Forces, Chobetsu, etc., for this "committee" on
crypto policy, must be scrutinized, and almost certainly criticized.

>  It seemed to me that after Jim Bell's arrest, most of the posts to
>the list posted an almost-standard disclaimer: "Actually, although
>I hardly knew the man, thought he was a _loon_, and _disagreed_ with
>most of what he had to say..."

Actually, more people were openly discussing his ideas than before.

I, for one, never dismissed the ideas. I think his ideas are derivative
(cf. my entire sections in the 3-year-old Cyphernomicon, for example). And
his idiosyncratic way of presenting them ("Something _wonderful_ is about
to happen!," "I have an idea") gave the appearance that he was close to
being a loon, if not actually one.

Personally, I see nothing to be gained in the bigger scheme of things by
targetting the Portland office of the IRS, for example. Nor do I think his
"Assassination Politics" market would work in the way Bell claimed it
would: many pointed this out, and Bell never seriously responded (that I
can recall, but, then, I deleted many of his posts).

This has nothing to do with your presumptive point, that we were frightened
by the IRS and other LEA actions and then sought to distance ourselves from
Bell's idea. Nothing could be further from the truth. I, for one, have made
it clear that I will not  inform on Bell, or answer LEA questions unless
subpoenaed or charged. (And possibly not even then. I have not been a
co-conspirator of Bell's, and any questioning of me can be done at my
standard consulting rates. I am willing to be an "expert witness" on some
topics, if my schedule is free.)



>> And nothing but mischief will come out any meetings with government on
>> "crypto policy," as their goals can never be our goals. At least in the
>> U.S., despite obvious flaws, we have a "Congress shall make no law"
>> provision which _tends_ to make government meddling in speech, such as
>> meddling in crypto, more difficult.
>
>  I hope that the "flag" Tim is wrapping himself in isn't the same one
>that he was burning yesterday.
>  {Not that I'm accusing Tim of being purposely deceitful. It's just
>that when we throw a "leaner" instead of a "ringer," they sometimes
>lean in opposite directions.}

Utter bullshit. I have cited the First, Second, and other provisions of the
Constitution for the 5 years of this list. That I would prefer an even more
anarchistic, market-oriented system than we now have, or that I dislike the
hundreds of thousands of laws passed over the last 50 years, is no reason
not to use the protections of the Constitution.  And the line between an
anarchocapitalist and a strict constuctionist is fine indeed. Anyone who
thinks this is "deceitful" is probably one of those folks who says, "Oh,
yeah, well if you dislike government why don't you just refuse to drive on
public roads? Some people are just born stupid.


--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."