From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 04:33:32 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Things we should be working on...
In-Reply-To: <v03102808b0314226079c@[207.167.93.63]>
Message-ID: <v03102811b032245d2d79@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 12:28 PM -0700 9/2/97, Ian Goldberg wrote:

>The effect the crypto regs have on me is that any time I want to actually
>_implement_ something and publish it, I have to wait for school breaks,
>go home (to Canada), do all of the work there, and publish it from there
>before I return to Berkeley.  This obviously cuts down on the rate at which
>I can get things done.  Americans don't even have this option. If not
>for problems like this, S/WAN would certainly be further along than it is
>now.

One more question. Could you tell us which things you are talking about
here, which things you returned to Canada to implement?

(And was any of the "prep" work done here in the U.S.? My understanding of
the EARs is that if any of the prep work--basic research, algorithm
development, trial coding, etc.--was done in the U.S., then going to Canada
to finish and release a piece of code is no protection, and in fact
violates the EARs. This is, at least, the explanation given by RSADSI, PGP,
Netscape, etc., for why they don't simply move their crypto experts
offshore.)

In any case, Ian, I think your examples would be very interesting to hear
about. I think Dan Bernstein's "Snuffle" was not quite a serious piece of
code. By this I mean that Snuffle was never used in a major way in any
product (perhaps it could've been...I recall Schneier had some mention of
it a while back in Dr. Dobbs, and I don't mean to imply it was not a good
cipher, just that Bernstein's challenge was more to prove a legal point
than to actually get Snuffle and whatnot available for export in real
products),

Ditto for Prof. Junger, whom I don't believe was actually threatened with
prosecution. In both the Bernstein and Junger cases, and this is a credit
to their initiative, they filed premptively, so to speak. They requested
clarifications/permissions, and as Karn did, as Levien did (the t-shirt).

I have seen no evidence that those publishing academic work in the
journals, or even producing products, are being prosecuted under the ITARs
or EARs.

(The issues of whether a Web release constitutes "export" is of course a
separate--and important--issue. And the issue of whether Ian, as a
Canadian, can legally do work or sell products while on a student visa in
America, is also a separate issue.)

If you are actually going to Canada to release products, this might be even
more interesting than either the Junger or Bernstein cases. Of course, if
you discuss this openly, you may be inviting repercussions.

--Tim May

There's something wrong when I'm a felon under an increasing number of laws.
Only one response to the key grabbers is warranted: "Death to Tyrants!"
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net  408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^1398269     | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."