From: "Dr. Zeus" <zeus@alt.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 19:39:26 +0800
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
Subject: Re: Stronghold
In-Reply-To: <wLPgee5w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Message-ID: <3444A62C.22B@alt.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
> 
> Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes:
> >> > Unfortunately I wasn't on cypherpunks-unedited at the time, but I
> >> > thought that it was immediate send out from toad.com without going via
> >> > Sandy.
> >>
> >> Going over my notes I see that at least one of my submissions - the
> >> one quoting the C2Net lawyer letter in its entirety - didn't appear
> >> even on cypherpunks-unedited.
> >

Just where was the Lawyer's letter?  Did it have any telephone number
on it?  I want to call that guy and make sure it was really from him.

> >I think I saw this claim made before around the time of the "moderation
> >experiment".
> >
> >The only ways I can see that this could have happened are either that:
> >
> >  i)  John Gilmore started editing cypherpunks-unedited at Sandy/C2net's
> >      request
> >
> >  ii) cypherpunks-unedited was edited all along by someone (John or Sandy)
> >

Are John and Sandy still sucking and fucking each other?

> >i) is sort of feasible, perhaps there are others who were on unedited
> >and were counting who could confirm this.  Toto I think was.
> 
> Apparently a 'bot was installed on toad.com to discard my submissions from the
> "unedited" list _after my article which prompted the C2net threatening lawyer
> letter did make it through the "unedited" list (but was censored from the
> "flames" list by C2Net).
> 
> >ii) is hard to believe because the fact that something is edited shows
> >-- when the editor is sleeping you get lag.
> >
> >I'm fairly sure I didn't see the C2 legal letter you posted yesterday
> >before.
> 
> I'm sorry to have to return to this topic that's been beaten to death and
> causes me intense nausea. I figured I'll comment on two more attempts to
> revise history by lying C2Net shills from Hewlett Packard and Oracle.
> 
> Please recall that C2Net created 3 lists on toad.com:
>  unedited
>  flames
>  C2Net-approved
> 
> At one point, all my submissions to cypherpunks appeared on "unedited" and
> then on "flames" with about a 3-second delay, indicating a 'bot at work. The
> 'bot was scrubbed when C2net decided that my writings were not suitable for
> auto- forwarding to the "flames" list either. For about a week, numerous
> articles by myself, Tim May, et al appeared on "unedited" but not on "flames".
> 
> Howver toward the end of the "moderation experiment" apparently a 'bot on
> toad.com was filtering my submissions from the 'unedited' list as well. My Jan
> 30th announcement that C2Net filtered out of the flames list _did show up on
> the unedited list. However my following articles, like the one quoting C2Net's
> threatening lawyer letter (which I cc'd to numerous people, including JYA,
> who, not surprisingly, declined to put it on his archive) did _not appear on
> the "unedited" list. Nevertheless at least one lying C2Net shill from Hewlett
> Packard claims that my articles appearing on the unedited list on January 30th
> prove that I wasn't being filtered from "unedited" one week later.
> 
> Another lying C2net shill, Jason E. Durbin, a technical writer for Oracle,
> just wrote in news.admin.net-abuse.policy:
> 
> }For those unfamiliar with the tactics Vulis uses when attempting to
> }destroy moderated fora, take a look at the current, ongoing thread
> }called "Stronghold" (and other variations on same) on the Cypherpunks
> }mailing list archived at:
> }
> }http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/current/date.html#start
> }
> }It summarizes (including Vulis' take on the situation) Vulis' attack
> }on the mailing list itself via a feigned attack on the Stronghold
> }security server.
> }
> }In summary, make such an annoyance of yourself by whatever means
> }necessary (posting binaries, running an insultbot, making false
> }accusations, etc.) to get yourself threatened with banishment, then
> }rally the free speech advocates by painting yourself as the innocent
> }harmed party even though no banishment occurred.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> }
> }Interesting insights into how Vulis attempts to manipulate his victims
> }into damning themselves while making him look like a victim.
> }Interesting reading.
> 
> "No banishment occured" - more bizarre lies from C2Net and their supporters.
> 
> Oh, and I don't recall sending binaries to this list either.
> 
> This reminds me of the claim by Rich Graves, another C2Net/Cygnus shill, that
> I'm sending "hundreds" of articles a day to this mailing list.
> 
> You may recall that the same C2net/Oracle shill Jason Durbin has been
> following up on my Usenet articles in sci.crypt, comp.unix.questions, etc
> with lies and libel: claiming, e.g., that I "lie about my credentials",
> that I don't even have a master's degree, etc. Is C2Net paying Jason Durbin
> to badmouth my academic credentials?
> 
> >From Jason Durbin's Net.Scum page:
> 
> Jason E. Durbin, jdurbin@nl.oracle.com, jed@poisson.com,
> slothrop@poisson.com, jed@best.com, jed@netcom.com.
> 
> Jason claims to work for Poisson Corporation, 8 Avocet Drive, #211, Redwood
> Shores, CA 94065, tel +1 415 637 0435, JD503.
> 
> In real life, Jason is a lowly technical writer for Oracle Corporation, 500
> Oracle Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065, tel: +1 800 345 3267, +1 415 506 7000,
> (+1 605 506 7000), fax: +1 415 506 7200.
> 
> Jason's manager in the technical writing department is:
> Sanford Dreskin
> Mail Stop:  MS-40P12
> Office tel: +1 415 506 2181
> Office fax: +1 415 506 7228
> Home tel: +1 510 376 9526
> Home addr: 859 Augusta Drive, Moraga, CA 94556-1051
> 
> In what ways are Durbin and the Hewlett-Packard liar affiliated with C2Net?
> 

Yes, this c2Net needs investigated as a troublemaker.

> ---
> 
> Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
> Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps