From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 1997 21:33:49 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Stronghold
Message-ID: <wLPgee5w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes:
>> > Unfortunately I wasn't on cypherpunks-unedited at the time, but I
>> > thought that it was immediate send out from toad.com without going via
>> > Sandy.
>>
>> Going over my notes I see that at least one of my submissions - the
>> one quoting the C2Net lawyer letter in its entirety - didn't appear
>> even on cypherpunks-unedited.
>
>I think I saw this claim made before around the time of the "moderation
>experiment".
>
>The only ways I can see that this could have happened are either that:
>
>  i)  John Gilmore started editing cypherpunks-unedited at Sandy/C2net's
>      request
>
>  ii) cypherpunks-unedited was edited all along by someone (John or Sandy)
>
>i) is sort of feasible, perhaps there are others who were on unedited
>and were counting who could confirm this.  Toto I think was.

Apparently a 'bot was installed on toad.com to discard my submissions from the
"unedited" list _after my article which prompted the C2net threatening lawyer
letter did make it through the "unedited" list (but was censored from the
"flames" list by C2Net).

>ii) is hard to believe because the fact that something is edited shows
>-- when the editor is sleeping you get lag.
>
>I'm fairly sure I didn't see the C2 legal letter you posted yesterday
>before.

I'm sorry to have to return to this topic that's been beaten to death and
causes me intense nausea. I figured I'll comment on two more attempts to
revise history by lying C2Net shills from Hewlett Packard and Oracle.

Please recall that C2Net created 3 lists on toad.com:
 unedited
 flames
 C2Net-approved

At one point, all my submissions to cypherpunks appeared on "unedited" and
then on "flames" with about a 3-second delay, indicating a 'bot at work. The
'bot was scrubbed when C2net decided that my writings were not suitable for
auto- forwarding to the "flames" list either. For about a week, numerous
articles by myself, Tim May, et al appeared on "unedited" but not on "flames".

Howver toward the end of the "moderation experiment" apparently a 'bot on
toad.com was filtering my submissions from the 'unedited' list as well. My Jan
30th announcement that C2Net filtered out of the flames list _did show up on
the unedited list. However my following articles, like the one quoting C2Net's
threatening lawyer letter (which I cc'd to numerous people, including JYA,
who, not surprisingly, declined to put it on his archive) did _not appear on
the "unedited" list. Nevertheless at least one lying C2Net shill from Hewlett
Packard claims that my articles appearing on the unedited list on January 30th
prove that I wasn't being filtered from "unedited" one week later.

Another lying C2net shill, Jason E. Durbin, a technical writer for Oracle,
just wrote in news.admin.net-abuse.policy:

}For those unfamiliar with the tactics Vulis uses when attempting to
}destroy moderated fora, take a look at the current, ongoing thread
}called "Stronghold" (and other variations on same) on the Cypherpunks
}mailing list archived at:
}
}http://infinity.nus.sg/cypherpunks/current/date.html#start
}
}It summarizes (including Vulis' take on the situation) Vulis' attack
}on the mailing list itself via a feigned attack on the Stronghold
}security server.
}
}In summary, make such an annoyance of yourself by whatever means
}necessary (posting binaries, running an insultbot, making false
}accusations, etc.) to get yourself threatened with banishment, then
}rally the free speech advocates by painting yourself as the innocent
}harmed party even though no banishment occurred.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
}
}Interesting insights into how Vulis attempts to manipulate his victims
}into damning themselves while making him look like a victim.
}Interesting reading.

"No banishment occured" - more bizarre lies from C2Net and their supporters.

Oh, and I don't recall sending binaries to this list either.

This reminds me of the claim by Rich Graves, another C2Net/Cygnus shill, that
I'm sending "hundreds" of articles a day to this mailing list.

You may recall that the same C2net/Oracle shill Jason Durbin has been
following up on my Usenet articles in sci.crypt, comp.unix.questions, etc
with lies and libel: claiming, e.g., that I "lie about my credentials",
that I don't even have a master's degree, etc. Is C2Net paying Jason Durbin
to badmouth my academic credentials?

>From Jason Durbin's Net.Scum page:

Jason E. Durbin, jdurbin@nl.oracle.com, jed@poisson.com,
slothrop@poisson.com, jed@best.com, jed@netcom.com.

Jason claims to work for Poisson Corporation, 8 Avocet Drive, #211, Redwood
Shores, CA 94065, tel +1 415 637 0435, JD503.

In real life, Jason is a lowly technical writer for Oracle Corporation, 500
Oracle Parkway, Redwood City, CA 94065, tel: +1 800 345 3267, +1 415 506 7000,
(+1 605 506 7000), fax: +1 415 506 7200.

Jason's manager in the technical writing department is:
Sanford Dreskin
Mail Stop:  MS-40P12
Office tel: +1 415 506 2181
Office fax: +1 415 506 7228
Home tel: +1 510 376 9526
Home addr: 859 Augusta Drive, Moraga, CA 94556-1051

In what ways are Durbin and the Hewlett-Packard liar affiliated with C2Net?

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps