From: "Attila T. Hun" <attila@hun.org>
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 11:03:29 +0800
To: Adam Back <cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: "moderation experiment" (was Re: Stronghold)
In-Reply-To: <199710060836.JAA00816@server.test.net>
Message-ID: <130bbbf.3c4e@hun.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



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    when the whole sordid affair went down, particularly Dimitri's
    charges on faults, and my very strong "discussion" on the
    possibility Sameer may have cut a deal to save his own skin,
    thereby making C2 very insecure and very dangerous, I was
    subscribed to unedited, edited, flame, and announce --sorting 
    them into separate folders just to watch. the premise was 
    that none would be dumped: unedited was all, flame was 
    anything which was not in the edited feed.
 
    As to sameer, I was not terribly kind as to his general 
    morality, or the class morality as a whole. the fed hot
    water had mysteriously cooled off.

    unedited was clearly delayed during the day. I never saw
    dimitri's letter, and I would have, since dimitri was one
    of the louder (and, frankly, a bit too vituperative). there
    was a time I read most everything Dimitri posted just for
    the inanities and humour.  Dimitri (dont get a fat head,
    sucker) is more bark than bite; did your mother repress
    you as a child, Dimitri? 

    I sent one small comment on C2 backdoor possibilities for 
    ass-saving in the wee hours, it went through. the others
    did not, I thought maybe I had missed it, and checked
    DejaVu and the archives (which are not always the best)
    --so I reposted in the wee hours.

    likewise, tim copied several of his protests which never made
    it to the unedited list.

    so, in addition to the travesty of "moderating" the free speech
    list, Dimitri non-withstanding, they lied to us in regards the
    unedited list.

    as for Sandy's excuse that a few blatant examples from Dimitri
    placed him personally in double jeopardy --that's pure hyperbole,
    and it's fetid. and real low for a man with a law ticket.
    secondly, there should have been absolutely no hold on the
    unedited list and therefore no liability.

    no question in my mind that Gilmore, Sandfort, Sameer, and
    whoever else had their little stinky fingers in the pie were
    trying to censor them all --just in varying degrees. all of
    their actions were reprehensible, and from my standpoint, I
    would not trust any of them to not kick a dog when it was
    down --or even pour kerosene on a cat's behind.

    Bad Day in Blackrock.  where is Spenced Tracy and Gary Cooper 
    when High Noon really does join The Greatest Show on Earth?

    -------- previous messages follow for reference ---------

on or about 971006:0936 
    Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk> purported to expostulate:

+Dimitri Vulis <dlv@bwalk.dm.com> writes:
+> Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk> writes:
+> > Unfortunately I wasn't on cypherpunks-unedited at the time, but I
+> > thought that it was immediate send out from toad.com without going via
+> > Sandy.
+> 
+> Going over my notes I see that at least one of my submissions - the
+> one quoting the C2Net lawyer letter in its entirety - didn't appear
+> even on cypherpunks-unedited.

+I think I saw this claim made before around the time of the "moderation
+experiment".

+The only ways I can see that this could have happened are either that:

+  i)  John Gilmore started editing cypherpunks-unedited at
+Sandy/C2net's
+      request

+  ii) cypherpunks-unedited was edited all along by someone (John or
+Sandy)

+i) is sort of feasible, perhaps there are others who were on unedited
+and were counting who could confirm this.  Toto I think was.

+ii) is hard to believe because the fact that something is edited shows
+-- when the editor is sleeping you get lag.

+I'm fairly sure I didn't see the C2 legal letter you posted yesterday
+before.

+Can anyone else can confirm?

+Adam

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