From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 12:10:58 +0800
To: Peter Herngaard <declan@well.com>
Subject: Re: Report on UN conference on Internet and racism
In-Reply-To: <v03007802b09803dce3d1@[168.161.105.216]>
Message-ID: <v03102805b09803760c07@[207.167.93.63]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



At 8:14 PM -0700 11/18/97, Peter Herngaard wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Nov 1997, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>> Sorry. I was unclear. I was comparing U.S. citizens with citizens of
>> another country who are living in that country.
>>
>> If a U.S. citizen living in the U.S. is running an ISP, I would argue from
>> principle that he has a right to distribute writings (I like Jeanne's
>> bookstore analogy) penned by citizens of another country.
>But would the goverment under existing law have a right to force
>the publisher  to disclose the real identity of the one who wrote the
>inflamatory message to a foreign goverment?

No, "Congress shall make no law..." means, in most cases (*), that
bookstores, publishers, distributors, etc., cannot be compelled to request
permission about whom they may sell things to, may not be compelled to
require certificates of permission to sell material, etc.

So, getting back to the "can a law be passed against foreigners using U.S.
sites?" issue, this misses the real point. The chokepoint, or point of
control, is not enforcing U.S. laws against Germans, or Kuwaitis, or
Botswanans...it is, rather, at the bookstore, point of distribution, ISP,
publisher, etc. And it is clear that the U.S. government (and by extension,
the states) cannot compel a publisher, distributor, ISP, bookstore, etc.,
to screen purchasers, to require a license to read, etc.

(* The exceptions being for obscenity, espionage, and the usual things. I
don't agree with these exceptions, but these are the oft-debated
impingements on the First.)


> Most speech that would be considered hate speech in Europe would not
>meet the prerequirement of dual criminality.

None of it would. We in America are perfectly free to call for the killing
of all niggers, the expulsion of gypsies, and the truth about the Holocaust
myth.  (Not taht I personally believe in any of these examples.) Too bad
other countries place civil order above basic liberty.

It's time to "Just Say No" to the U.N. The John Birch Society makes more
sense every day.

--Tim May



The Feds have shown their hand: they want a ban on domestic cryptography
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May              | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES:   408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA  | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^2,976,221   | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."