From: "William H. Geiger III" <whgiii@invweb.net>
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 13:04:42 +0800
To: Petro <petro@playboy.com>
Subject: Re: Citizenship silliness.  Re: e$: crypto-expatriatism
In-Reply-To: <v03110703b21c4777ca38@[206.189.103.244]>
Message-ID: <199809091801.OAA04010@domains.invweb.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

In <v03110703b21c4777ca38@[206.189.103.244]>, on 09/09/98 
   at 09:58 AM, Petro <petro@playboy.com> said:

>At 11:25 PM -0500 9/8/98, William H. Geiger III wrote:
>>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>>In <v03110710b21b6a259806@[206.189.103.244]>, on 09/08/98
>>   at 06:17 PM, Petro <petro@playboy.com> said:
>>
>>>	No, more like a get off our fucking land.
>>
>>Sure thing, and where you live, exactly who's land was it before you got
>>there?

>	Point is, the "Arabs" didn't start it, the UN/European leaders (US, UK,
>FR, and RU) did.

Both the Palestinians and the Jews living in Trans-Jordan wanted their own
country. The UN resolution divided up the land based on population and
gave each group their own country. Israel declared their independence, the
Palestinians listened to the Grand Mufti and join in the holy war to wipe
out the Jews. The Arabs lost, too bad, game over.

And interesting note to the whole palestinian "issue" is that the majority
of the population of Jordan is palestinian!! And long before the Intifada
the PLO tried to take over the government of Jordan and were embroiled in
civil war for most of the 60's and early 70's. The Jordanian Arabs finally
kick the PLO out in the early 70's (71 maybe 72).


>	If I move you off your property at the point of a gun, should I expect
>you to _like_ it, even if I gave you what I consider "fair market value"?

This re-wright of history might give you warm fuzzies but no one was moved
at gun point off their land (at least not until the Arabs started the
war). The Jews that emigrated to Trans-Jordan/Palestine *purchased* the
land from the Arabs that were living there. Even after the war the
majority of palestinians left on their own.

None of the current Arab countries existed until the British carved up
their conquered territory after WWI. If Israel is not "legitimate" because
of UK/UN involvement does it follow that all of the Arab states that were
formed at this time are also illegitimate? Perhaps we should should
re-unite the Ottoman Empire? How far back in history do you want to go to
find the "legitimate" territorial boundaries? Persian? Roman? Israel?
Egyptian? Sumerian?

I find it quite hypocritical of Americans who see the Israelites as
occupiers and oppressors but would be outraged at calls to give back the
south-west to Mexico. Tim, you want to give your ranch to some Mexican
family since the Americans took that land from them? but then the mexicans
would have to give that land back to some deserving "native" Americans as
they took that land from them. But then again we would have to sift
through the thousands of years of tribal warfare and migration to find the
one true owners of the land.

- -- 
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
William H. Geiger III  http://www.openpgp.net
Geiger Consulting    Cooking With Warp 4.0

Author of E-Secure - PGP Front End for MR/2 Ice
PGP & MR/2 the only way for secure e-mail.
OS/2 PGP 5.0 at: http://www.openpgp.net/pgp.html
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
 
Tag-O-Matic: OS/2: Windows with bullet-proof glass.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.3a-sha1
Charset: cp850
Comment: Registered_User_E-Secure_v1.1b1_ES000000

iQCVAwUBNfbEUI9Co1n+aLhhAQGMYgP/Wy+8lVZ6b1YiadmpJ2J/chGcj0NoFbp9
uQhCtPoV2017EdU9c0AcI1PtJ+Bat3wNrZsBMgcnRxA+elgBLe9EbI7kCLIiTr6d
8Kv1stRtd2UPcAoqbJR0EBKtGaryfZY1TzCC2SBbKJUi8pJnfET20wj4Trihw+jh
lSpcGvvHVjg=
=jXCe
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----