From: Adam Back <aba@dcs.ex.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 1998 08:09:09 +0800
To: fod@brd.ie
Subject: importance of GUIs / secure distributed IRC (Re: propose: `cypherpunks license')
In-Reply-To: <361D3BD9.328931B5@brd.ie>
Message-ID: <199810082259.XAA15504@server.eternity.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




Frank writes:
> I do agree that it's important to get stuff "out there" in whatever
> form (partly to get it fixed, but mainly so it can't be shut down).

Yup, so it can't be shut down is what I was getting at.

> need _some_ base level of security before you've really deployed
> privacy. Deploying crypto is not the same thing. 

Well if you personally have any influence over the design or code,
make it as secure as you can, forward secrecy, generous key sizes,
decentralised design, source code included etc.  I'd take that as a
given.

But I think a company slotting crypto into a product, or re-selling a
crypto application (like say Stronghold) is useful too, and doesn't
conflict with the first aim.  I don't think anyone is proposing not
distribute code, rather just noting that encouraging companies to
include crypto in their applications where they would not otherwise do
so all helps.  And in general a free-er license means more people will
use the code.

> I also think that the free crypto libraries exist, and now it would
> be nice to see free crypto applications. By that I mean turnkey
> stuff with Windows installation programs and GUIs that normal people
> can use--and *source* (turnkey for developers too). Make it easy to
> have privacy, basically.

This is all important, I agree.  Many cypherpunks type coding efforts
end up being usuable only by unix hackers, or whatever.  eg Magic
Money by pr0duct cypher.

As I think someone noted recently this tends to happen because the fun
part to the coder is implementing the crypto part and getting it
working.  After that GUIs and stuff is boring slog, so tends to not
get done.

> > if people mention software, it is nice to know some details:
> > why should we be interested in your software etc.
> 
> Well, it's early days (I am just designing and prototyping now), but my
> goal is to make a decentralised secure messaging client that ordinary
> ISP users can use without any special resources. Something like icq, but
> with crypto and without any central server, the intention being that it
> would be easier to set up and harder to filter or shut down. 

OK, I take it back... you are a cypherpunk after all :-)

Some people are working on this, I seem to be getting Cc'd on their
discussions, which included lately a reasonably detailed spec.
Perhaps you could merge projects.

Adam