From: Matthew J Ghio <mg5n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 93 15:25:47 PDT
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: distributed autonomous networks
In-Reply-To: <199310081918.AA06860@Menudo.UH.EDU>
Message-ID: <MghSVRS00Vp2BH7Uc=@andrew.cmu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


> > Possible power sources: batteries (but they need to be changed)
> >                         solar power (Australia leads the world in
solar power
> >                                      technology, and I know people who know
> >                                      people).
> >                          Near Field Interaction and EMF pickups (stick 'em
> >                             near high-frequency power transmission lines).
> >                          Something that convert heat to electrical energy
>
> If you are hiding boxes on telco poles, an obvious source of power
> presents itself.  :-)
>
> I like the EMF idea!  Ideologically and technically interesting...
> Is it practical?   Heat to electricity?  hmm...

haha...  Well, telephone lines are not a good source of power, because
if you draw too much current, you will get caught very easily when the
customer starts having problems and complains.  I like the EMF idea tho!
 It would probably work fairly well, and would be undetectable unless
they actually went up to check it out.  In most areas, power is carried
by high voltage lines (several thousand volts) and then they have a
transformer every block or so to convert it down to 120v (or 240v or
whatever).  But those high voltage lines do produce a large magnetic
field.  If you strung wires parallel to them, you could get a pretty
sizeable amount of power out of it (enough to run a transmitter at
least).

Heat to electricity: possible but not practical.  Thermocouples can be
expensive and don't produce too much power.  You'd need to place it by
something constantly warm, especially at night.  Solar panels with
rechargeable batteries would probably work best.  That way, the box
could be located in a tall tree or somewhere away from other obvious
power sources, or in other less conspicuous locations.

> > I have no idea how this could be done across interstate or international 
> > distances, but I'm sure people might have ideas. Bounce signals off
> > satellites (are those big shiny things from the 50's still about?); send
> > stuff encrypted via the internet, etc etc.
>
> Someone suggested general use of IR laser links, but someone else
> mentioned that it would be a bitch to operate a decentralized network
> of IR links.  Well, lasers and microwave are probably best suited for
> mid-range connections betweens clusters of boxes.
>
> (Ham radio tinkers with microwave and laser communication experience
>  should probably comment here...  )
>
> Since the FCC frowns on encrypted amateur radio, I doubt we could
> openly use the ham nets or satellites...but how about bit fiddling
> with slow-scan TV?  :-)  The list has generated many good ideas
> on tunneling naughty data in otherwise innocent exchanges...

Well, for international, we might be able to pirate a few unused
frequencies on satellites, altho this might piss off some big name guys
just enuff to get the cops after us.  There's the possibility of
reflecting radio waves off the moon, but of course this would not work
all the time.

Infrared:  IR works well for short distances, and can not be intercepted
easily, but can scattered by rain and fog.  (Polarized light might help
filter noise somewhat tho.)  Furthermore, it has to be direct line of
sight, and can't be situated where something might move in the path of
the beam.  Perhaps someone living on a hill could put up a big aluminum
reflector, and people could focus beams of light onto it.

As for hiding messages in other signals, there's always the possibility
of using ultrasound on a voice frequency...(if the frequency is high
enuff to make it feasible)

> How many people are interested in this idea?  Is it time for
> a radiopunk task force?  Does one already exist?  :-)

Yep, I think so...  I like the idea.