From: hiscdcj@lux.latrobe.edu.au (Dwayne)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 93 07:27:03 PDT
To: Asbahr@UH.EDU
Subject: Re: distributed autonomous networks
In-Reply-To: <199310081918.AA06860@Menudo.UH.EDU>
Message-ID: <9310121421.AA25614@lux.latrobe.edu.au>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


>Haha!  That's exactly how I got hyped about the Julieboard --
>rummaging in the backlog of the voluminous-but-valuable cpunk posts...

:-)
Yeah, they are useful. I got on this list only a couple of months ago, so
I am sure I have missed a lot.

>My question:  Exactly how cheap can we make these things?  Mass
>produced boards, a bag of appropriate components, and a few dozen
>cpunks working in parallel could work wonders.  

This is what I thought. If they are made so that they are self-powering,
and tuned via crystals, there is no reason why we couldn't have them
mass-produced wherever the hell they are cheapest to manufacture, as 
part of a big world-wide single order. My friend over here suggested
we <we being anyone vaguely interested in a free and unbreakable net> get
in touch with the ham radio set, plus the bbs scene. The more the merrier,
I say.
The advantage of crystals, or at least a tunable set, is that we can then 
tune them to whetever local frequency is appropriate...

>What about surface mount components?  Harder to assemble, and fewer
>people have the skills, but the resulting box would be very small
>and more easily concealed.

Well, the smaller the better, I think. Ideally they'd be match box or 
cigarette packet sized, or smaller. But I have no idea how big the julieboard
is....

>If you are hiding boxes on telco poles, an obvious source of power
>presents itself.  :-)

Phone lines are underground, here. Power lines aren't, though  :-)

>I like the EMF idea!  Ideologically and technically interesting...
>Is it practical?   Heat to electricity?  hmm...

The EMF isea IS practical. Apprently they have things in the train stations 
which induce a hum in a loop in a hearing aid so blind people can navigate
the platforms. This is in the undergroun stations in central melbourne.
I know nothing about EMF, but my freind does, and he think it's practicable.
I don't know about the heat-to-power idea, and neither does he, he's just
heard of it.

>Someone suggested general use of IR laser links, but someone else 
>mentioned that it would be a bitch to operate a decentralized network 
>of IR links.  Well, lasers and microwave are probably best suited for
>mid-range connections betweens clusters of boxes.

This is what I thought. I thought of using IR lasers for the net-to-Internet
link. What sort of traffic can an IR laser carry, and how cheap are they?
Is this sort of stuff easily done?

>(Ham radio tinkers with microwave and laser communication experience
> should probably comment here...  )

>Since the FCC frowns on encrypted amateur radio, I doubt we could
>openly use the ham nets or satellites...but how about bit fiddling
>with slow-scan TV?  :-)  The list has generated many good ideas
>on tunneling naughty data in otherwise innocent exchanges...

Well, the idea behind this is that even if the authorities DID frown on
the whole thing, there is nothing they can do about it. there is no 
centralised switching mechanism, just lots of cheap nodes scattered (and
hidden) all over the place. The concept of ARPAnet as an uninterruptible net
was what set me off on this track. Even if they could find the nodes, we
just put more up. they could jam the links, but if we make them so that
we can remotely change the frequncy, or use spread-spectrum tech, then
what can they do?  The radio direction finding bunch in the government
here has been shut down due to cost-cutting <heh heh> so there is bugger
all that could be done to stop it, in this country at least.
If we make the whole thing into suburban cells, and run each cell on a 
different frequency, then it wuld be impossible to jam the network.

>How many people are interested in this idea?  Is it time for
>a radiopunk task force?  Does one already exist?  :-)

Well, there is one over here, so i'll co-ordinate it if people are 
interested. People can mail me directly, and in a couple of weeks I'll 
have my own UUCP site so I can set up a maling list if the traffic gets 
too big.
I think this is a very good idea. Sure, we can encrypt our data, but we are 
still transmitting it over =someone else's net=
So, let's build our own!

Dwayne.