From: rarachel@prism.poly.edu (Arsen Ray Arachelian)
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 94 18:16:22 PDT
To: ravage@bga.com (Jim choate)
Subject: Re: Trashing the list? What motivates people?
In-Reply-To: <199407101543.KAA01486@zoom.bga.com>
Message-ID: <9407110103.AA04665@prism.poly.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Jim, I agree with you.  The complaints are from those who are too lazy t
simply not read a message, who feel the urge to read anything and everything,
and seeing something they've seen elsewhere feel cheated somehow.

Yes, there are several arguements:

1. "It wastes bandwidth"

A: If I didn't think that someone on this list would enjoy it, find it of
   use or interest, I wouldn't have posted it.  While I realize that not
   everyone is like me, I also realize that it is likely that others share
   the same interests as I do, or else we wouldn't be on this list.

2. "I've seen it before"
A: Great, then you don't have to read it.

3. "You should just put pointers up to the original article"
A: The original article may be on usenet.  Not everyone has access to usenet
   though they have access to internet mail.  Not everyone who has access to
   usenet has access to the particular newsgroup the message/article was posted
   in.  Not everyone who has access to the particular newsgroup will get to
   see the particular article because some systems will have a short delete
   time and by the time they find out about the article, it will be gone.
   At this point, if they're only mildly interested, they'll give up, if they're
   really interested, they will ask for the message to be sent to them out
   of someones benevolance.  Not everyone will have copies of it, not everyone
   will bother to send the message.

   Forwarding messages to the list has the advantage that anyone who might be
   interested will be able to receive it.

4. "I dislike forwarded messages so much I'm going to bitch about them until
    you stop posting them."
A:  You're an asshole with nothing better on your hands.  If you dislike wasting
    time and bandwidth why do you post complaints about it?  Why do you waste
    your time and the time of those who want to see the article, or the time
    of those who do not wish to see your rantings?  Experience tells me that
    the bitching replies to an "offending" message usually will last for a
    long time, generating far more bandwidth waste, not contain anything
    remotely on topic, and annoy the fuck out of the whole list.  So just
    because you are annoyed and like to bitch doesn't mean you should force
    the whole list to listen to your rantings.

    Besides, even if you do botch, 99.99999% of the readers will simply ignore
    your rants, or delete them on sight without reading more than the subject.

I like the idea of having a cypherpunks-fwd subgroup.  This way the assholes
on this list who only complain won't have to subscribe to it.. I will tolerate
off topic messages and I don't have a problem with hitting the delete key.
I will tolerate seeing things I've seen before and won't bitch about them
either.  But when someone calls my messages off topic be they mine or be they
forwards, all I need to is look at all the messages on the list to find the
same ones that I'd ignore and stick the nose of the accuser in them.  This
will usually shut them up quickly and silence their ridiculous rantings.

Post and let post.  If you don't like it, don't read it.  Thems by two
electrons. :-D