From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 23:59:56 +0800
To: jim bell <jimbell@pacifier.com>
Subject: real life problems with ITAR (was Spam the Sign!)
In-Reply-To: <m0tInGT-0008xjC@pacifier.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD.3.91.951124073019.12402G-100000@usr4.primenet.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, jim bell wrote:

>  Jeff Simmons <jsimmons@goblin.punk.net> said...
>
	[SNIP] 

> >
> >I have the feeling that we're talking about two different things here - the
> >law as it's practiced in the courtroom and the law as it's practiced on the
> >'streets'.  Obviously, the fact that I feel I'm doing something 'legal'
> >won't help much if the government decides to do a Phil Zimmerman on me.
> >But I would be interested in your comments.
> 
   On Thu, 23 Nov 1995, jim bell wrote: 
 
> I very much agree with the direction you appear to be headed in.  It seems
> to me that Netscape should have no problem devising some sort of scenario in
> which such a program eventually gets onto the nets, but in a way that is
> squeaky clean, at least for THEM.  
> 
> 
> In addition, why should they even need to write the encrytion part of their
> software IN the US?  It occurs to me that one way to do this might be to
> send one of their programmers to a conveniently-located place, such as
> Vancouver BC , Montreal Canada, or a few other nearby places, with a great
> deal of fanfare, and tell him to "write some crypto."  He does, and brings
> it back into the US with him, leaving a copy of it "outside" the country for
> international distribution.
> 
    <attila sez>  I think they have that one covered --not only is it 
violation of ITAR's intent to send a programmer out of the U.S., but is 
illegal to hire a foreign national to program for your non-U.S. products.
    the test is going to be with someone like Sun who "bought" a group of 
Russian crypto programmers and left them in Russia.  Now, the problem 
with ITAR is that if you import that code, you can not then export the 
code since it is now covered by ITAR.
    secondly, it appears there is a move afoot to make it an ITAR 
violation to hire the foreign nationals to circumvent ITAR --basically, 
the Feds want to stop cryptography _everywhere_, including telling 
Russians they can not work for U.S. companies!  Just where do they think 
they are getting off?

    then, when ALL hitech moves out of the U.S. and the DoD needs us, we 
will not be here, will we?