From: jimbell@pacifier.com (jim bell)
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 1995 10:35:43 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Spam the Sign!
Message-ID: <m0tInGT-0008xjC@pacifier.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


 Jeff Simmons <jsimmons@goblin.punk.net> said...

>Then suppose you hand software to MIT to put on its export-controlled ftp
>site (which would seem to follow your requirements to take reasonable
>precautions to observe the ITAR, etc.) and you don't do the nudge, nudge,
>wink, wink - BUT you know that it's going to be available on major ftp
>sites in Europe within a few hours anyway.  The intent to export isn't 
>there, but the export occurs anyway.  Is it the intent, or the knowledge
>that's important?
>
>Obviously the intent, or the MIT server would be in jail.
>
>So I demonstrate lack of intent to export, by following MIT's model when I
>set up my own 'export controlled' ftp server.  Am I safe?  Or do I need
>a note from the NSA or somebody to do this?  And if I do need somebody or
>something's 'permission', and they refuse to give it, aren't they using
>ITAR to restrict the distribution domestically?  Do I have any options in
>this case other than to give up?
>
>Or, to bring it down to a practical question, what's stopping Netscape?  How
>does Netscape setting up an 'export controlled' ftp site based on the MIT
>version lead to one of their executives going to jail?
>
>I have the feeling that we're talking about two different things here - the
>law as it's practiced in the courtroom and the law as it's practiced on the
>'streets'.  Obviously, the fact that I feel I'm doing something 'legal'
>won't help much if the government decides to do a Phil Zimmerman on me.
>But I would be interested in your comments.


I very much agree with the direction you appear to be headed in.  It seems
to me that Netscape should have no problem devising some sort of scenario in
which such a program eventually gets onto the nets, but in a way that is
squeaky clean, at least for THEM.  


In addition, why should they even need to write the encrytion part of their
software IN the US?  It occurs to me that one way to do this might be to
send one of their programmers to a conveniently-located place, such as
Vancouver BC , Montreal Canada, or a few other nearby places, with a great
deal of fanfare, and tell him to "write some crypto."  He does, and brings
it back into the US with him, leaving a copy of it "outside" the country for
international distribution.