From: IPG Sales <ipgsales@cyberstation.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 10:28:51 +0800
To: "Perry E. Metzger" <perry@piermont.com>
Subject: Re: Internet Privacy Guaranteed ad (POTP Jr.)
In-Reply-To: <199602192346.SAA00359@jekyll.piermont.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSD/.3.91.960219181128.5326C-100000@citrine.cyberstation.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




On Mon, 19 Feb 1996, Perry E. Metzger wrote:

> 
> IPG Sales writes:
> > We are not currently revealing all the details of our system because of 
> > patents in process,
> 
> Bull. Once you have applied for the patent you no longer need be
> secret -- indeed, you can still apply for a patent up to one year
> after full publication.
True, but we are not sure what is going to be covered by patents, 
obviously you must know that wemay have to treat some of the information, 
maybe all of the really iomportant stuff as trad secret material and try 
our best to protect it inm that manner - we cannot depend upon the 
paatents until we know what is going to be covered, if anything - so bull
back to you.

> 
> > We are offering the software. You should be able to readily
> > decompile it and determine the algorithms used andf how they are
> > used to generate random number sequences for very long files.
> 
> Something tells me it wouldn't be worth my while. Until you guys get a
> clue, none of my clients on Wall Street or elsewhere are coming within
> a mile of your products. I won't even waste my time looking at them.
> 
In time they will, because keymanagem,ent makes RSA systems unmanageable 
for large organizations - offer such a suystem to Merrill Lynch and be 
laughed out of the office - only a syustem such as ours resolve that 
problem!


> > If you are aware of encrtypting technology, you recognize that hardware 
> > prime number cycle wheels for the basis of some of the most secured 
> > hardware systems employed for encryption.

Please refer to Dorthy Dennings excellent work on mathematical 
crytanalysis of wheeeled cryptosystems, and then imagine that every 
Nvelope, or suych wheeled system, was based on randomly selecting the 
prime number wheels, they do not have to be, but ours are - imagine that 
every message ever sent was sent using such an unique wheel system. 

> 
> The cypherpunks mailing list is composed of some of the most
> knowledgeable people in the field of cryptography in the
> world. Therefore, you will pardon my noting that the phrase "prime
> number cycle wheels" isn't a term any of us are familiar with. I don't
> find the term anywhere in any of the literature, I don't recall it,
> and if it was anything more than marketingese I would have. You do
> seem to know enough to know that prime numbers play a bit of a role in
> modern cryptography, but that seems to be it. They play very little
> role in non-public key systems like yours.

Are you sure that none of you are familiar with it? I have received many 
replies indicating that a large number of you are familiar with it, 
I refer you again to Denning's. Maybe you are not, but many are, 
apparently most from the replies that I am getting. Such systems are 
used at the highest level of government because they are the most secure 
systems available, excepting OTP's of course. 


> > We simply expand that technogy 
> > using software to set an intial setting, an adder, and a limit for 64 
> > such wheels, using large random prime numbers for each of those settings. 
> > The total number of possibilities is over 10 to the 1690th power and can 
> > be much larger. 
> 
> Spare us the bull. You don't get security in a crypto system from
> having impressive combinatorial explosions. A simple monoalphabetic
> substitution can claim to have 403291461126605635584000000 possible
> keys and you wouldn't trust your six year old cousin not to crack
> it. (the number would be far, far more impressive if I'd taken all
> ASCII characters instead of just the alphabet of 26 letters in to
> account).
Who in the world said it was monalpabetic substitution -  we are talking 
about the random sequences for a single message - A random prime number 
wheel system, provides a far more secure system that RSA based systesms, 
- check it out, and do some investigating instead of talking. > 
> > Someone, will decompile it and discover that it is truly random, at least 
> > from the practical usage basis.
> 
> "Truly random" and "for practical purposes" don't mix. If it isn't
> truly random, then the question is whether or not the thing is, in
> fact, a strong encryption system.
> 
> Time and time again, snake oil salesmen come up and delude themselves
> and others into thinking that they have some sort of great encryption
> system and time and time again it cracks open like an egg. You guys
> have all the stigmata.
> 
> > The IPG system solves the key management problem
> 
> Public key cryptography did that 20 years ago. Where have you been?
> 
> > and produces a truly unbreakabkle system.
> 
> The only system that is truly unbreakable is a true one time pad, not
> a fake one.
> 
> > We make no apologies for not currently revealing all 
> > of the methodologies and algorithms,
> 
> Too bad. You should be embarassed to even open your mouths. 

Not until we know what patent coverage is going to do and not to do.

> 
> Perry
>