From: Just Rich <rich@c2.org>
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:28:55 +0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Tim's paranoid rant about Declan appearing on "Europe's Most Wanted"
Message-ID: <199602011002.CAA25917@infinity.c2.org>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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OK, I didn't want to sow dissension in the ranks, but this is just too 
much, and Declan has not given a satisfactory response to direct email. 

On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Timothy C. May wrote:

> At 7:27 AM 2/1/96, sameer wrote:
> >> I guess Declan M. won't be visting France or any of the other EU
> >> countries any time soon!
> >
> >        That reminds me of a question--
> >
> >        If, for example, Germany decides that my company is in
> >violation of their laws for mirroring the Zundelsite, will they send
> >us a letter saying that, so we know not to go to Germany?
> 
> The Nebraska-based neo-Nazi publisher who was picked up in Denmark and
> extradited to Germany pretty much knew his actions were illegal in Germany,
> but I doubt (sheer speculation on my part) he had ever been formally
> notified that an arrest warrant had been issued by Germany and could be
> exercised in Denmark.
> 
> The situation with Declan, Sameer, Duncan, and others, is even less clear.

I disagree. It is clear to me that there is absolutely no cloud hanging 
over us. If any German court tried to press charges against me for 
posting Zendel's materials, they'd be laughed across the Argonne. Most 
mainstream Jewish groups *love* me right now.

I find it curious, and I am beginning to get a little annoyed, that my
name is rarely mentioned, though I set up the first mirror, and Declan got
the files from me. 

I am very annoyed that Declan has not responded to repeated requests to
remove the cleartext "Stanford University" from the parts of his Web site
that mention me. Of course the stanford.edu, or at least net 36.190, will
remain in the URL, but there is no reason that the link text could not say
"Rich Graves' mirror." First Declan sent me mail saying he would respect
my wishes, but he didn't. Then a friend of mine reminded Declan of my
request, and Declan responded with abuse. 

I do not object to the cleartext "Stanford University" because anyone is
pressuring me to remove the page. Far from it; almost every personal
response has been positive, and the student newspaper, at
www-daily.stanford.edu, is going to run a positive story tomorrow or the
next day. Rather, I object simply because I do not represent Stanford
University, and it is an intellectually dishonest abuse of power to
suggest in any way that I do. 

Declan wants me to believe that this disclaimer is enough:

       "Please note that the
       existence of a web site at any particular institution does not
       in any way imply endorsement. Universities and businesses
       do not take responsibility for what their community members
       or customers place online."

This is clearly untrue when the person in question is a staff member, as I
am. Were I still a student, then I could more legitimately say that I'm a
student at Stanford, and that I have the academic freedom to post whatever
I want; but as someone who now merely works for a living at Stanford, I do
whatever I want by the (very) good graces of my (very good) employer. 

Should we have forced Marianne to state her affiliation for the TV cameras
last Saturday? 

> Things are moving much faster now that the Net is the means of
> distribution.

Yes, far too fast. Otherwise good people aren't thinking about what
they're doing in their glee to "fight censorship." 

> I was of course half-joking about Declan visiting Europe, but
> surely France could decide to throw the book at him, and any EU country he
> entered (such as Ireland, judging from his name) could hold him at their
> entry point and ship him off to France to "set an example."

Bullshit.
 
> I suspect the U.S. never officially notified that Monterrey, Mexico alleged
> drug dealer that he was wanted in the U.S., and as other kidnappings of
> foreigners have shown, the U.S. feels it unnecessary to formally announce
> to foreigners that they may be arrested in the U.S. (or kidnapped into the
> U.S.). Thus, I strongly suspect that France will not bother to notify
> Declan or Sameer or any of us that they face arrest in France (or
> affiliated EU countries).
> 
> In Declan's case, I suspect France wants him for the Mitterand book and

France doesn't want anyone for the Mitterand book, which was not, in 
fact, criminally banned. It was censured, not censored, in a civil trial. 
Declan is distorting the facts to suit his ego as Mr. Anti-Censorship.

I find this breast-beating hype embarrassing and dishonest, and I am 
seriously beginning to regret giving the Zundel files to Declan. Had I 
known what he was going to do with them, and how he was going to behave, I 
would have retained closer control.

One mirror site was enough. The German providers would not have blocked
stanford.edu had it remained the only mirror site. The President of
Stanford, Gerhard Casper, is a recognized constitutional scholar from
Germany. The Stanford Provost, Condoleezza Rice, was one of the two or 
three people most responsible for the Bush Administration's policy 
towards German Unification. Dozens of Stanford students have studied in 
Berlin.

Had they blocked stanford.edu, or had they gotten through to Stanford and 
somehow gotten Stanford to force me to take down the pages, then we would 
have set up more mirrors. I would have started, and maybe stopped, 
by setting up mirrors on c2.org and netcom.com. Graduated response. 

Germany has in fact blocked no sites beyond webcom.com. I have the
patience to wait a week for the German political authorities to wake up
and smell the bratwurst. 

Declan is himself becoming a sort of revisionist, loose with the facts.

> Germany wants him for the Zundelsite mirrors. The lesser European countries
> will of course follow their leads.

This is ludicrous. I expect better from you.

> Seriously, Declan, I admire what you've done, but I hope you don't plan to
> leave the U.S. for Europe anytime soon.

This is paranoid bullshit.

Most of the Jewish organizations I have talked to grudgingly applaud the 
Zundelsite mirrors. Some actively applaud them. The Wiesenthal Center, of 
course, is "different." They haven't answered email, and I haven't had 
time to call them.

Censorship is dying, destroyed by truth.

Please don't spoil the party with this paranoid bullshit.

Ernst Zundel is a lying Nazi asshole who wants you to believe that there 
is a Global Jewish Conspiracy to censor him. Fuck him.

Declan, if you don't fix up your page the way I want it by morning (please
not that you have three more hours of morning than I do), I will post a
modified (spell-checked) version of this note on my Web page, to
alt.censorship, and to your "fight-censorship" mailing list.

- -rich

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