From: Rich Graves <llurch@networking.stanford.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 16:03:51 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Rabbi Hier Testimony
In-Reply-To: <AlTadgO00YUvERbGhW@andrew.cmu.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GUL.3.93.960424160212.19618N-100000@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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On Wed, 24 Apr 1996, Declan B. McCullagh wrote:

> Excerpts from internet.cypherpunks: 23-Apr-96 Re: Rabbi Hier Testimony
> by Declan McCullagh@CMU.EDU
> > The EF Canada web pages also detail how the SWC has been trying to get
> > the Canadian equivalent of the FCC to regulate the Internet. The ACLU
> > reports at the URL above how the SWC has tried the same trick here in
> > the U.S.

The majority of what you said in that message was misleading at best, but
I haven't said anything because that's off topic, and who listens to a
FUCKING STATIST anyway. I know you don't have time to correct any
acknowledged errors on you web pages, so why should I waste my time
pointing them out?

Since we all agree that the SWC is in the wrong, we need something to talk
about. Let's just agree up front that the size of your dick is
proportional to the fervor of your denunciation of the Simon Wiesenthal
Center, facts notwithstanding. So far, I believe Tim wins because he
called them "Jew Nazis," but keep working at it. Maybe if you're lucky,
you'll earn the George Orwell Free Speech Award: 

 http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/botting.gary

> While I'm at it, I should offer my prediction that the Southern Poverty
> Law Center likely will become active in attempts to regulate and control
> the Net.

Sure, why not. It's probably true that they'll try. Being a bunch of
idealogues, I don't imagine that they'll realize, as Sameer points out,
that *they* are considered an anti-government group. 

> In today's Washinton Post, Morris Dees, the Center's co-founder, 
> indicates that a book Timothy McVeigh read influenced him to bomb the
> Oklahoma City building. 

Morris Dees is certainly not the only person to speak of this influence.
Try Terry Nichols and McVeigh's sister.

Said book being The Turner Diaries, which, like the Goebbels book that
your web page says is "banned," is being published without censorship. It
tells the story of The Order, a white supremacist group that overthrows
the US government through random acts of terror and violence against
political, cultural, and economic targets. There happens to have been a
real terrorist organization that called itself The Order, led by a bunch
of National Alliance members. You may have heard of Bob Mathews.  Now The
Order has resurfaced in Spokane Valley; some bombings and bank robberies
went down in early April, to some applause on the Neo-Nazi lists. 

The Turner Diaries has always been available through the National Alliance
Neo-Nazi criminal organization, whose leader wrote it.  If you want to
read this book, I will personally send you a copy of the National Alliance
edition. 

The Turner Diaries is now going to be published by the more mainstream
Barricade Books as well. Good for them. I really don't like the idea of
sending the National Alliance any more money.

There was a flurry of controversy about the new edition, to which the
publisher, Lyle Stewart, responded in, of all places, Liz Smith's widely
syndicated "Grapevine" column, thusly: 

  "I couldn't help recall a similar controversy that raged when a major
American publishing house issued Adolf Hitler's 'Mein Kampf.' Should such
a book be published? To me the answer was self-evident. Of course, it
should have been. People should be able to read and understand what
Hitler was about.
  "By the same reasoning, I believe most people think militias and related
groups like the Freemen are fun-loving, beer-drinking gun fanatics who
like to shoot rabbits and deer. Not so. They hate democracy. They hate our
government and all officials who represent it. They practice racism and
terrorism. Is this something that only the Drug Enforcement Agency and the
FBI and CIA should know, or do you have a right to know and understand it,
too?"

So yes, Morris Dees is a fool, and so are you.

- -rich
 http://www.c2.org/~rich/Not_By_Me_Not_My_Views/rebuttal.html

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