From: attila <attila@primenet.com>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 1996 21:54:04 -0700 (PDT)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: is there no end to AP & Creative Wiretap Arguments?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.94.961009010443.4662E-100000@polaris>
Message-ID: <199610120553.XAA19208@infowest.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


        after months of patient explanations to Jim Bell and 
    sympathizers, going over the same points in 31 flavours,
    the same arguments of what I would call "respectable" anarchy 
    (well stated by Tim May) rather than the "world at war" anarchy of 
    Jim Bell --  where are we?!?

        I read Jim's first "manifesto" at least 18 months ago; and, the
    "refined manifsto" less than a month ago.  I have yet to see an 
    application of civilization which brings AP society up to even the 
    level of Tombstone AZ just prior to the OK Corral.

        Jim's theories all hinge on betting pools which supposedly can
    be run like the lottery where the poor can share a ticket 
    (egalitarian, of course), anonyminity (which as an argument is 
    appropriate, but what for in a selfish immoral act?),  and a 
    justice is served attitude, even if there are mistakes.

        the whole concept of AP does not even support the concept of
    "justice is expeditiously served!"   it is a resort to the manners
    of dogs and monkeys sitting at the same table --a spiteful, 
    arrogant player can move the betting pools to assassinate anyone.

        In other words, are we planning to use James Caan as the lead
    runner in "Roller Ball"  --except this time we're playing with a 
    "live" society for which we hold in common the utmost contempt?  

        are we trying to return to the bread and circus mentality of 
    Rome on its deathbed and slide to subjecation by Attila the Hun 
    who was actually stopped from sacking Rome after the Pope so 
    impressed him with his regal robes....  deciding  tribute from an 
    established dictatorship was more reliable?  --and less costly?!?

        has anyone seen a single social moral fiber in Jim's often 
    passionate arguments for AP, or even in the "results" in a society
    which will never breed another leader: religious, secular, or even
    political?  

        does AP permit anything except slaves and drones which can 
    just as easily be replaced by robots?  maybe noone will miss news
    reports (as 'canned' as they are), or movies which entertain or 
    provoke?  or ice cream sundaes at the soda fountain?

        ...and the disappearance of grocers, and doctors, and dentists
    bringing forth a new age of subsistence farming and hunting for 
    the lucky few who might live to a readjusted live expectancy point
    of 30 yrs, burning books and computer printouts for cooking and 
    warmth.

        why have books or knowledge when there is noone willing to
    accept the responsibility of educating your children, the instructor
    waiting for the parent of Dumb Suzy to avenge her failing grade?  
    after all, Suzy does not need to read, not even well enough to 
    take the test for a driver's license --there is no infrastructure;
    no need to learn math well enough to possibly balance a checkbook
    --after all, there are no banks...

        well, killing for my country was once my civic duty;  I never 
    killed in revenge --there was no need, we never left enough living
    for them to attempt their revenge.  

        was it desensitizing, yes.  killing is just another days work...

        would I even consider doing it again for our "proud and just" 
    republic?  what "proud and just" republic? it has not even had
    the resemblence of a republic, let alone "proud and just" since
    Stanton and his crony Cotton arranged the assassination of
    Lincoln --it only cost Cotton $50,000.  

        sacrificing 55,000 men and frying the brains of another
    1.5 million solely to fatten the industrial war machine?   using
    John Foster Dulles' "domino theory" to justify the carnage... 

        to bad I was still of an era which said 'you will serve if called'
    and so stupid to take almost six years to get out.  Would you 
    serve a country today which is rotten to the core?

        "Assassination Politics" is nothing more than a childish game
    which 'legalizes' killing anyone you wish.  are AP's proponents so 
    naive they believe the bookies will not have any public person 
    assassinated by rigging the pools for their own profit?  remember,
    law enforcement ceased with the return of 'law of the jungle' 
    anarchy.  

        AP has already decided the people are free to return to the 
    savage jungle where the big cats hunt for food, and man hunts for
    pleasure.

        Jim Bell has amused us long enough --an average of 10-15
    messages a day; every thread being convoluted to included the
    aspects of Assassination Politics  --the all encompassing AP.

        PURE CRAP!

        arguing AP in any form is just another case of mental 
    masturbation, and the old story still applies:  

            "if you are arguing with a fool; 
                look in the mirror before you continue!"

        or as brock says:

                attila out....
--
  What part of 'Congress shall make no law 
    abridging the freedom of speech'
    do you not [oops... sorry] do you understand?