From: Dale Thorn <dthorn@gte.net>
Date: Mon, 4 Nov 1996 22:43:36 -0800 (PST)
To: Sandy Sandfort <sandfort@crl.com>
Subject: Re: FW: Dr. Vulis is not on cypherpunks any more [RANT]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.961104121108.122E-100000@crl.crl.com>
Message-ID: <327EE192.7D6B@gte.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Sandy Sandfort wrote:
> On Mon, 4 Nov 1996, Dale Thorn wrote:
> > Am I missing something, or do some people just not get it?

> Yes, Dale is missing something, not the other way around.[snip]
> Would Dale be so tolerant if Dimitri were loudly using abusive
> language towards Dale's mother and others in her own livingroom?
> Would he accuse her of censorship if she asked Dimitri to leave?
> What would he say if she kicked Dimitri out?  Enquiring minds want to know.

A more practical and realistic example might be if Dale was living in an apartment,
and Dale's mother walked out to the garage to get into her car, and the next-door
neighbor started calling her the most vile and foul things (but no direct threats
of harm or whatever), and Dale called the Police, and the Police said "there's
absolutely nothing we can do, and further, if you should happen to get into a
scuffle with the neighbor defending your poor old mother, even if the neighbor
starts the fight, we will arrest you and take you to jail", ad nauseam.

When asked directly what the male police officers would do if someone tried that on
their mother or wife, they would be evasive and non-committal, because, as you see,
they have to defend themselves first before they can defend you, the paying client.

This is far more realistic than your example, since the immediate neighborhoods where
these situations develop are a better model for cypherpunks than the inside of one
individual's home.  Other models I can think of might be a free-speech forum such as
a radio talk show, with rather strict guidelines due to the FCC or the host station,
or (less likely) a continuous, never-ending party hosted at an individual's home,
where that individual can exercise total autocracy in throwing someone out.

I could probably do better with this, or even leave it alone, if the arguments were
more rational and less of "I feel this is wrong....it just feels wrong", etc.

Your questions above didn't really say anything I can respond to better than this.