From: attila@primenet.com
Date: Sat, 30 Nov 1996 00:28:54 -0800 (PST)
To: Tim Scanlon <tfs@adsl-122.cais.com>
Subject: The Rise and Fall of Cypherpunks  WAS [Re: the Dennings]
In-Reply-To: <9611300437.AA05806@adsl-122.cais.com>
Message-ID: <199611300829.BAA22027@infowest.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


In <9611300437.AA05806@adsl-122.cais.com>, on 11/29/96 
   at 11:37 PM, Tim Scanlon <tfs@adsl-122.cais.com> said:

::(with apoligies to attila, who all this was NOT directed at) Tim Scanlon

        no, I didn't read it that way, Tim. thanx for the tag though!  

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    follow on:

        I am aware of the Dennings and their politics --and, I suspect 
    like you, have no illusions that much of anything will change their 
    opinions.  Like many, she (I have never met him) appears as a 
    gracious, intelligent individual.

        however, she certainly is a "find" for the Clinton team (who
    appear as fascist in their approach to crypto and gun control as 
    Hitler). Bubba could never have created so exquisite a spokesman...

        1935 will go down in history! For the first time a civilized 
        nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, 
        our police more efficient, and the world will follow our 
        lead in the future!
            --Adolf Hitler

    in fact, protecting free speech through cryptography is even more
    important than gun control (not much, though --they go hand-in-hand)

    ...and, Bubba is writing new history. witness the infamous question
    #46 of a very real questionnaire given to all black-shirt Marine and 
    Seal units --we all _know_ these units do not exist....

            46. The U.S. government declares a ban on the possession, 
            sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting 
            firearms. Consider the following statement:
      
                I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist 
                confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. government.

    this was a survey given at USMC 29 Palms, Pendleton, LeJuene, etc.
    I was aware of the survey _before_ it was given to my son --who 
    _was_ a black-shirt NCO.  The survey also included questions
    covering command and direction from UN officers on US soil, against
    our people.  The Feds tried to pass it off as someones Masters
    research  -a different person at different bases. 

    Now, how does that information get passed around?  am I preaching
    to the choir, yet?    

        In truth, successful dictators are usually very popular. 
        Their regimes are distinguished not by silence but by 
        roaring crowds and festive rallies. Benito Mussolini, 
        Adolf Hitler, Juan Peron, Mao Zedong, and Fidel Castro 
        all mastered the technique of amplifying their support, 
        while reducing opposition to no more than private grumbles. ... 
            --Tyranny Without Dictators, SOBRAN'S March 1996.

    and a made for television sorry excuse for an executive with his
    fingers on the football (which some claim has been taken away from
    him by the SS (notice the similarity in the initials) since the SS
    does not trust his cocaine violence.

        in other words, how about we spend the time productively,
    creating _intelligent_ critiques and opposition to the direct 
    assault on The Bill of Rights by a pack of raving Federalists.

        it's the same old story: Adams, Hamilton, and Madison believed
    in all powerful central governments --in fact, they would have just
    as soon settled for an "American" king.  ...they became the 
    "Federalists."  interesting --Jefferson, who is revered as the 
    founder of the Democratic Party which opposed "Federalists," would
    not accept any responsibility for the tax and spend welfare state
    Democratic Party of today --he'd be a Conservative.

        we, and I mean all of us, who contribute the bulk of the 
    "opinions" to cypherpunks gave the mainstream press the biggest
    possible hole to run straight over us, declaring us anarchists
    and wild-eyed fanatics. unless we as a group mend our ways, and
    turn out intelligent reasoning for the advance of cryptography as
    a mainstream way of life, we will be forever consigned not only to
    the dustbin, but subject to the ridicule of both the press and the
    government.

        None of us are above a little sarcasm --but let's get the 
    vituperative effluent out of the system.  do whatever you wish in
    private mail, but keep the profane rantings off the list.

            this goes for you, Dimitri; and "aga" too.    

        meanwhile, Ms. Denning goes on shilling for the apocalypse...

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