cryptoanarchy.wiki

Arise, you have nothing to lose but your barbed wire fences!

1996-12-13 - Re: Java DES breaker?

Header Data

From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Message Hash: 9e9d7bb7457fe002bfb498b476dc79778ff3c15188a01f3321119ae1513c5f6c
Message ID: <9yVuyD159w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
Reply To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.961212221038.27578A-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
UTC Datetime: 1996-12-13 04:00:10 UTC
Raw Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:00:10 -0800 (PST)

Raw message

From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:00:10 -0800 (PST)
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
Subject: Re: Java DES breaker?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.961212221038.27578A-100000@beast.brainlink.com>
Message-ID: <9yVuyD159w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Ray Arachelian <sunder@brainlink.com> writes:

> On Wed, 11 Dec 1996, Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM wrote:
>
> > I happen to have a Sparc 20 box and a Linux box and a SCO box, and ActiveX
> > won't work on any of those. I also work with a bunch of other equipment
> > that's much faster than a PC, but doesn't run browsers. (Most of it is not
> > connected to the 'net for security reasons, but that's besides the point.)
>
> Right, and Active X, if those machies were on the web, would not be
> supported.

That's what I said in line 1.  Your point?
(And of course if these machines were on the Web as servers, they could take
advantage of ActiveX on clients.)

> > Interpreted FORTH bytestream (which is what Java is) may be "doing quite we
> > when drawing GUI gizmos and widgets, but it can't get anywhere near the
> > performance of hand-optimizer assembler that you can stick into ActiveX.
>
> While ActiveX does support hand optmized assembler, there are Java
> JustInTime compilers which take JVM bytecodes and turn'em into raw
> assembler.  They aren't hand optimized, they are natively compiled code,
> but they are native code non the less.  A good optimizing compiler may

I've seen many Forth implementations, including pseudo-compilers similar
to what you describe. They sure generated a lot of instructions and an
occasional speed improvement over a simple-minded interpreter.

Can it go out on the web and talk to arbitrary servers?
Can it work with local files?

> not be 100% as cool and as fast as hand optmized code, BUT it'll be
> almost as fast.  And Java will run on just about EVERY platform out there.
> And that is a bigger, more important point than a 10%-25% increase in
> power over non-optimized code.

Where did the 10-25% figure come from?

Of course, Ray works for Earthweb, who has a "special partnership" with
SunSoft, and gets paid to badmouth competing products and push Java when
it's clearly inappropriate.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps

Thread