From: "L. McCarthy" <lmccarth@ducie.cs.umass.edu>
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 94 18:54:41 PST
To: cypherpunks@toad.com (Cypherpunks Mailing List)
Subject: Re: A possible solution
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SUN.3.91.941127203235.15664A-100000@discover>
Message-ID: <199411280255.VAA13207@ducie.cs.umass.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


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A(a)ron Freed writes:
> If they are caught by other means such as
> tips from anonymous sources and are then caught doing something illegal
> and they are also using non-escrowed public key cryptography to commit these
> illegal acts, then the fines and jail time should be increased. This
> reasoning is based on the fact that we need to be more responsible with
> technology. [...] We need to keep our rights but we need to still make it
> known that PGP is not meant for corruption and illegal use. [...] I need 
> feedback desperately on this idea. [...] I would like to know what others 
> feel about this idea.

Mike McNally writes:
# So why pick specifically on cryptography?  Why not increase penalties
# for criminals who in their crimes are found to have used:
# *	computers;
[...]
# *	Fat-free ice cream;

A(a)ron Freed writes:
> Why don't we stick to the topic? Do you have an intelligent reply or are 
> you going to shoot your mouth off? 

Relax and chill out with some fat-free ice cream. You wanted to hear some 
opinions, and you just heard one. If you're already fairly attached to this 
idea, you probably should have made that clearer in soliciting critical 
comment. I was tempted to reply to this earlier, but I felt Mike's retort did 
an ample job.

Why, indeed, pick specifically on crypto ?  IMHO the choice of tools employed
in the commission of the crime should only be relevant in determining the 
punishment if it substantially alters the nature of the crime. Robbing Ed's 
Superette with a gun in hand is substantially different from robbing
it with a bouquet of flowers in hand. OTOH, robbing Ed while wearing track
shoes counts the same as hitting his store while wearing fins. I don't get a
break for being stupid enough to pull a robbery in diving gear, but I don't
suffer more for having the sense to don appropriate skedaddling apparel.

Note that U.S. laws do *not* conform to any such standard, AFA I'm concerned.
If I were nabbed driving down into CT carrying a kilo of uncut heroin, I'd be
in much hotter watter than if they pulled me over on the Mass Pike just 
ouside Cambridge. In this instance it's a matter of jurisdiction: cross state
lines and suddenly the feds have to deal with you.  Perhaps better paradigms
are wire fraud and mail fraud. If I knock on your door and offer to protect
all your data forever with a proprietary algorithm that's *much* faster than
DES, that's one thing. If I send you a postcard or leave a message on your
answering machine with the same offer, I'm suddenly liable for stiff fines
from the feds.  This seems rather absurd to me, but that's the law for ya.

At any rate, I'm not about to get behind any initiative that suggests 
_tougher_ penalties for use of non-escrowed crypto under any circumstance. 

Especially for DCW, IANAL.

- -L. Futplex McCarthy; PGP key by finger or server; "Better watch what you say,
or they'll be calling you a radical...a liberal" --Supertramp  
"He took information in shopping bags out the front door" --a member of
Congress, describing CIA/KGB mole Aldrich Ames
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