From: Black Unicorn <unicorn@schloss.li>
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 18:49:03 PST
To: sameer <sameer@c2.org>
Subject: Re: Is there a lawyer in the house?
In-Reply-To: <199512080227.SAA15534@infinity.c2.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.951207214329.6540D-100000@polaris.mindport.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Thu, 7 Dec 1995, sameer wrote:

> > > You mean if you give me your key the police can get it from me without a
> > > warrant? What if I don't want to give it up, and you don't? How would the
> > > police get it without a warrant?
> > 
> > Yes.  Unless it could be shown there their was an expactation of privacy 
> > in the transfer, or that there was an understanding that you intended this 
> > to be a confidential matter.  Or in the alternative, that the 
> 
> 	I do not understand.
> 
> Alice has Alice gives Bob her key.  Cop wants Alice's key.  Cop tells
> Bob "I want Alice's key, you need to give it to me. I don't have a
> warrant."
> 
> How is this different from
> Bob has key. Cop want's Bob's key. Cop tells Bob "I want your key,
> you need to give it to me. I don't have a warrant."

The real concern is this:

Bob gives his key to alice.

The cops walk into alice's place and 'convince' alice to turn the key 
over whithout a warant.  Perhaps alice is more susceptible to 
persuasion because of some external reasons.  Alice does, Bob has no privacy
interest in the key, Bob can no longer argue that it is protected under 
the 4th amendment.

Now let's get more sinister.

The cops mysteriously 'find' the key somewhere without a warrant.
Bob cannot argue that the key should be surpressed on the basis of the 
4th amendment because he gave it to Alice, and thus clearly it's not 
information he was interested in protecting.  (This is assuming the cops 
didn't violate other areas, or break into a house or something, or that 
if they did, that the court will find out about it).

That's the rationale.

> 	sheesh, what a fucked up legal system.

Indeed.

> sameer						Voice:   510-601-9777
> Community ConneXion				FAX:     510-601-9734
> The Internet Privacy Provider			Dialin:  510-658-6376
> http://www.c2.org/ (or login as "guest")		sameer@c2.org

---
My prefered and soon to be permanent e-mail address: unicorn@schloss.li
"In fact, had Bancroft not existed,       potestas scientiae in usu est
Franklin might have had to invent him."    in nihilum nil posse reverti
00B9289C28DC0E55  E16D5378B81E1C96 - Finger for Current Key Information