From: dlv@bwalk.dm.com (Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM)
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 09:23:04 -0800 (PST)
To: freedom-knights@jetcafe.org
Subject: Re: Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
In-Reply-To: <9611161024.AA00954@adsl-122.cais.com>
Message-ID: <PeuHXD14w165w@bwalk.dm.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Tim Scanlon <tfs@adsl-122.cais.com> writes:

> Stephen Boursy wrote, along with a horde of others with no lives:
> [lots of worthless crap snipped out]
> >
> > None of that analogy is applicable to the cyberpunks list.
> > When a list gets as big as that, it it no longer to be considered
> > a "mailing-list" but it is a _public_ forum.  The whole problem
> > here is the abuse of power by both the EFF and John Gilmore.
> >
> It's not an abuse of power. It was an effort to curtail inappropriate
> SPAM. Much like this entire topic has become non-crypto SPAM on the
> cypherpunks list.

I wonder how John Gilmore and his pals define "SPAM"? (always capitalized)
Is their definition content-based (e.g., any information criticial of EFF/
Usenet Cabal), or is it self-referential - any information that EFF wants
to suppress through forged cancels and plug-pulling is therefore SPAM and
must be suppressed?

> >   Well then let's put their precious censored mailing list in
> > the public domain.
>
> Hmm, above that you tried to argue that it wasn't a list, but a
> "public forum", logicly then you state that it is allready in
> the "public domain". Then you turn around and say it isn't, and
> should be taken from a private forum into the "public domain".
> Perhaps if you stopped ranting, you might realize your mistake.

There only people ranting here are Timmy May, John Gilmore, and their
supporters. Their position was summarised very well by the lying shyster
Jim Ray: he already killfiled whatever he doesn't like, so he doesn't
see it, but he wants to suppress it so others can't see it either.

> > Time to kill the EFF, and let it rot in hell.  They are disgrace
> > to the entire InterNet community.  I run 6 different mailing lists,
> > and have NEVER puled the plug on anyone, even when they criticize me.
>
> Please, the EFF is NOT a Cypherpunks organization. They may share
> some of the same goals, but they arn't the same. This should be obvious
> to even the most logicly deficient.

EFF has some laudable goals: let the pornography vendors peddle their
wares on the 'net. Unfortunately they're opposed to free speech in general,
as reiterated by John Gilmore quoted by Declan Mcculough. Too bad - but
then EFF never really pretended to promote free speech for anyone other
than its corporate contributors. (It's sort of like the Software Publishers
Association, who doesn't really care of anyone pirates the software sold
by non-members.)

> > The first time is the time when you lose all credibility, and there
> > is never any forgiveness for a plug-puller.
> >
>
> All bullshit aside, this whole thing has NOTHING to do with crypto.
> And it has very VERY little to do with censorship either. And it's
> gotten way, way out of hand. I suggest that it might be better not
> to spam cypherpunks with this stuff, and to give it a rest. Between
> the 2 lists & various people I see represented here, with all due &
> serious respect, you folks have GOT to have better, more important,
> and far more deserving issues to devote your time to. I would hope
> that you would take a few moments and think about those things, and
> consider acting appropriatly in light of those thoughts.

John Gilmore's censorship has gotten way out of hand. Dr. Grubor is not
spamming anyone - you are lying, and your repeated lies will soon earn
you as much "negative crediblity" and John Gilmore's.

---

Dr.Dimitri Vulis KOTM
Brighton Beach Boardwalk BBS, Forest Hills, N.Y.: +1-718-261-2013, 14.4Kbps