From: Tim Scanlon <tfs@adsl-122.cais.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 1996 02:25:35 -0800 (PST)
To: rent_control@msn.com (Stephen Boursy)
Subject: Re: Censor John Gilmore -- EFF is a disgrace!
In-Reply-To: <UPMAIL07.199611151356330254@msn.com>
Message-ID: <9611161024.AA00954@adsl-122.cais.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text


Stephen Boursy wrote, along with a horde of others with no lives:
[lots of worthless crap snipped out]
> 
> None of that analogy is applicable to the cyberpunks list.
> When a list gets as big as that, it it no longer to be considered
> a "mailing-list" but it is a _public_ forum.  The whole problem
> here is the abuse of power by both the EFF and John Gilmore.
> 
It's not an abuse of power. It was an effort to curtail inappropriate
SPAM. Much like this entire topic has become non-crypto SPAM on the
cypherpunks list. 
> 
>   Well then let's put their precious censored mailing list in 
> the public domain.

Hmm, above that you tried to argue that it wasn't a list, but a
"public forum", logicly then you state that it is allready in
the "public domain". Then you turn around and say it isn't, and
should be taken from a private forum into the "public domain".
Perhaps if you stopped ranting, you might realize your mistake. 

> 
> 
> Wrong!  The cyberpunks mailing list is PUBLIC property and should
> NOT be controlled by John Gilmore!  This just goes to show the real
> facist censorship motives that the EFF has behind it.

Ahh, but you previously said it wasn't public property. 
That aside, just because you say it is, doesn't mean it's so. Now
I realize that up there at MonopolySoft, that sort of logic actually
works, but in the real world it doesn't. The content may very well be
"public property" as such, but the list itself, and where it resides
are not public property. 

> 
> Time to kill the EFF, and let it rot in hell.  They are disgrace
> to the entire InterNet community.  I run 6 different mailing lists,
> and have NEVER puled the plug on anyone, even when they criticize me.

Please, the EFF is NOT a Cypherpunks organization. They may share
some of the same goals, but they arn't the same. This should be obvious
to even the most logicly deficient. 
Oh, and it's spelled "internet", and when use inside a sentance, it isn't
capitolized, no matter what Bill tells you. And if you pulled the plug
on any of your 6 lists, the members would have the option of reforming
another list someplace else, but it would be YOUR OPTION to pull the
plug, unless you were "only" the adminstrator, and not the list "owner".
John owns the list in the classic sense. (Ok I realize I may have lost
you there Mr. "InterNet", but the way it works is that either organizations
or individuals own lists, in this case it's an individual.)

> 
> The first time is the time when you lose all credibility, and there
> is never any forgiveness for a plug-puller.
> 

All bullshit aside, this whole thing has NOTHING to do with crypto.
And it has very VERY little to do with censorship either. And it's
gotten way, way out of hand. I suggest that it might be better not
to spam cypherpunks with this stuff, and to give it a rest. Between
the 2 lists & various people I see represented here, with all due &
serious respect, you folks have GOT to have better, more important,
and far more deserving issues to devote your time to. I would hope
that you would take a few moments and think about those things, and
consider acting appropriatly in light of those thoughts.

Tim Scanlon