1996-12-21 - Re: Ebonics

Header Data

From: Omegaman <omega@bigeasy.com>
To: Mark Rosen <mrosen@peganet.com>
Message Hash: 96e612a948c0f7fba3995d7bb7d4e2a4629ba688ae5a9e9cd0e2a50c772aef6b
Message ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961221155712.1265A-100000@jolietjake.com>
Reply To: <199612211754.MAA04080@mercury.peganet.com>
UTC Datetime: 1996-12-21 21:01:07 UTC
Raw Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:01:07 -0800 (PST)

Raw message

From: Omegaman <omega@bigeasy.com>
Date: Sat, 21 Dec 1996 13:01:07 -0800 (PST)
To: Mark Rosen <mrosen@peganet.com>
Subject: Re: Ebonics
In-Reply-To: <199612211754.MAA04080@mercury.peganet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.95.961221155712.1265A-100000@jolietjake.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

On Sat, 21 Dec 1996, Mark Rosen wrote:

> 	* You are making glaring generalizations regarding all members of an
> ethnic body; you don't seem to realize that intellect is based not on color
> or how you talk but on your brain (which has the same color and other basic
> properties in all humans, I believe)

That's not what was said.  He said he would not hire on the basis of a
person's inability to speak the English language.  That has nothing
whatsoever to do with color.    If you can't communicate with your
co-workers, how can you expect to get any work done?

> 	* You are completely forgetting the other "non-English" group in America;
> the so-called White Trash or heavy Southern accents, which are violate just
> as many prissy and stuck up rules of grammar as Ebonics

(In my thickest Southern Accent) Fuck you.  Speaking with an accent and
speaking proper english are not mutually exclusive. Ebonics and like notions
are an insult.

> 	I also think that you are forgetting about the human aspect of your
> discrimination. For a second, put yourself in the place of a really smart
> black guy applying for a job at Intel. He is overqualified for the job. You
> turn him down. Have you ever wondered what it does to a person to be turned
> down not on the basis of their moral character or intellect but by their
> skin? For someone to be told that they are stupid and are not competent to
> do this job? You don't realize that you are crushing _human_ lives, people
> who have feelings. If you would just put yourself in their place, you would
> realize the hurt that your are inflicting.

How did you get this out of the previous post?  If the person is indeed
overqualified, chances are he/she can and will speak English rather than
(let's face it) slang in a job interview.

> 	Out of curiousity, do you refuse from hiring people with Southern Accents?
> Or people who have heavy "asian" accents? I'm very surprised that a smart
> person like you, who believes in the power of strong cryptography, one of
> the greatest equalizing forces in the world, actively discriminates against
> other people who don't look or talk like you.

As has been pointed out in the past, crypto and technology can also be used
to enforce discriminatory practices.  Take off your rosen colored glasses.
Furthermore, there is a great difference between a heavy "asian" accent and
ebonics.  A person who struggles with the English language because it is not
his native tongue, I respect.  The notion that "black English" is a
separate language is absurd.  It is slang. 

off to eat my grits and learn me sum perl.
 Omegaman <mailto:omega@bigeasy.com> 
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