From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 20:53:07 +0800
To: cypherpunks@Algebra.COM
Subject: Re: Tim May's offensive racism (was: about RC4)
In-Reply-To: <62c0ce046ea812e50882fefc2a6c5667@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.971115143130.915B-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> > find Tim`s post an example of what the developed world knows as humour, 
> > not a serious attack on any ethnic group.
> 
> Tim May's post seems funny to you?  Not a racist comment?

It seems like something which has been blown out of all proportion by a 
few over-zealous pinko-liberal members of the list who support free 
speech right upto the point where someone says something which upsets 
them, then they run crying to mommy or hide under the bed. 
Racist comments to me would be those that generalised the opinion to all 
Japanese, Tim insulted one particular person. If you are going to become
oversensitive about such comments the cypherpunks list is probably the
worst place to be.

> His imitation of a Japanese accent is purely offensive.  Paul, would
> you feel comfortable offering this kind of "humor" in a gathering which
> included Japanese visitors, perhaps potential customers? 

No, because most people would misinterpret it in the same way you, and 
some other list members have, if I could be assured they would understand 
it as a light hearted mild insult rather than a racist remark I would 
have no problem saying it in those circumstances.

> It is astonishing that people like you and William Geiger, who apparently
> make their living as consultants, feel so comfortable publicly approving
> racist comments directed against the Japanese. 

Correction: I don`t make a living as a consultant, it`s merely a 
part-time bit of cash on the side thing, but, personal circumstances 
aside, were I a full time consultant, doing it for a living, I don`t see 
how it would affect my opinion as to what constitutes a serious racist 
comment.

> Does William expect ever
> to work with a Japanese customer, after suggesting that Truman should
> have dropped additional atomic bombs on Japan?

Most customers are too clueless to be reading such a list and won`t know 
what he said, that aside I don`t see the relevance.

> Even if you share Tim May's lack of moral constraint, you presumably do
> not also share his wealth.  Pragmatic considerations alone should make
> you reluctant to be an apologist for racist comments, or in William's
> case to compound the error with shockingly offensive remarks of his own.

I don`t shy away from saying what I think for financial reasons (at least 
not in most cases, that said I wouldn`t call my employer a 
nigger/wop/greezer/kike if I thought it would cost me my job.

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
  Paul@crypto.uk.eu.org, Paul@cryptography.uk.eu.org    
       Http://www.cryptography.home.ml.org/
      Email for PGP public key, ID: FC76DA85
     "Don`t forget to mount a scratch monkey"