From: Paul Bradley <paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 03:18:07 +0800
To: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
Subject: Re: Tim May's offensive racism
In-Reply-To: <19971116085933.51526@songbird.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.971116175711.1782A-100000@fatmans.demon.co.uk>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain




> So far as I know, there hasn't been a single post suggesting that 
> Tim's freedom of speech be curtailed.  Nobody is running to mommy, or 
> hiding under the bed.  And in the context of this list I have no idea 
> what "over-zealous pinko liberal" means.

I agree that a lot of comment on the subject has been from the point of 
view you outline above, but several anonymous posts have been of the 
ranting kind that suggests the poster is a quasi-libertarian who believes 
in "freedom of speech, almost". As for the quote, I think in the ranting 
context of the discussion a few pointless and out of context mild flames 
aren`t entirely out of place, and "over-zealous pinko liberal" was just 
the first one that sprang to mind after a few too many whiskeys.

> > Racist comments to me would be those that generalised the opinion to all 
> > Japanese, Tim insulted one particular person.
> 
> I don't base my assessment of Tim on that single incident -- it's 
> based on a history of his comments going back some time.  And I only 
> bring it up now because others have.  

If this is truly the case you have more justification for your comments 
(even though I happen to disagree with them) than most who have posted on 
this subject, who have reacted soley on this one isolated statement without 
any reference to Tims other posts.

> > If you are going to become
> > oversensitive about such comments the cypherpunks list is probably the
> > worst place to be.
> 
> I'm not oversensitive -- just stating the obvious to the oblivious.

Not so, making a distinction between different races is not the same as 
being racist, I could call you a yank, any of our 2 japanese posters a 
slant-eyed jap, and you could refer to me as a closeted limey, we both 
know the other has no serious intention to offend a whole ethnic group, 
even if the statement is intended to be offensive to its particular 
recipient. Someone over sensitive would however feel the comment was 
racist, ymmv, if it did, I would think your opinion wrong.

> It is an unfortunate fact that a large percentage of the population is
> racist without even being aware of it, and, like you, vigorously deny
> it.

I do not consider myself racist, merely able to see past PC bullshit 
about not calling a violent drug addicted "person of colour" a "fucked up 
nigger".

        Datacomms Technologies data security
       Paul Bradley, Paul@fatmans.demon.co.uk
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