From: Kent Crispin <kent@songbird.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 1997 01:08:42 +0800
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
Subject: Re: Tim May's offensive racism
In-Reply-To: <62c0ce046ea812e50882fefc2a6c5667@anon.efga.org>
Message-ID: <19971116085933.51526@songbird.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain



On Sat, Nov 15, 1997 at 02:38:48PM +0000, Paul Bradley wrote:
> 
> > > find Tim`s post an example of what the developed world knows as humour, 
> > > not a serious attack on any ethnic group.
> > 
> > Tim May's post seems funny to you?  Not a racist comment?
> 
> It seems like something which has been blown out of all proportion by a 
> few over-zealous pinko-liberal members of the list who support free 
> speech right upto the point where someone says something which upsets 
> them, then they run crying to mommy or hide under the bed. 

So far as I know, there hasn't been a single post suggesting that 
Tim's freedom of speech be curtailed.  Nobody is running to mommy, or 
hiding under the bed.  And in the context of this list I have no idea 
what "over-zealous pinko liberal" means.

> Racist comments to me would be those that generalised the opinion to all 
> Japanese, Tim insulted one particular person.

I don't base my assessment of Tim on that single incident -- it's 
based on a history of his comments going back some time.  And I only 
bring it up now because others have.  

> If you are going to become
> oversensitive about such comments the cypherpunks list is probably the
> worst place to be.

I'm not oversensitive -- just stating the obvious to the oblivious.
It is an unfortunate fact that a large percentage of the population is
racist without even being aware of it, and, like you, vigorously deny
it.

> > His imitation of a Japanese accent is purely offensive.  Paul, would
> > you feel comfortable offering this kind of "humor" in a gathering which
> > included Japanese visitors, perhaps potential customers? 
> 
> No, because most people would misinterpret it in the same way you, and 
> some other list members have, if I could be assured they would understand 
> it as a light hearted mild insult rather than a racist remark I would 
> have no problem saying it in those circumstances.

Quit a few years ago I was at a Cray User Group meeting.  Mike Booth,
a very bright technical guy who realized where the money was, and was
transitioning to sales, was giving a presentation on an idea he had
that Cray was marketing as "Microtasking".  It was a very large hall;
there were probably 700 people in attendance, largely white male.  I
was sitting way in the back; I had already seen the presentation. 
Mike was describing how the processors find work: "It's like a Chinese
fire drill." A slight figure in the front, about the 15th row, stood
up and said something I couldn't hear.  Mike couldn't hear it either. 
He asked the individual to speak up.  The crowd was quiet, and a thin,
heavily accented voice floated over it: "Please not to use the term
'Chinese fire drill'".

I have come to appreciate the level of courage involved.  It's not
like spitting out obnoxious statements to a friendly crowd of toadies
on cypherpunks. 

-- 
Kent Crispin				"No reason to get excited",
kent@songbird.com			the thief he kindly spoke...
PGP fingerprint:   B1 8B 72 ED 55 21 5E 44  61 F4 58 0F 72 10 65 55
http://songbird.com/kent/pgp_key.html