From: I'm Wozz <wozzeck@phantom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Jan 95 17:08:34 PST
To: Mike Duvos <mpd@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Files and mail
In-Reply-To: <199501070010.QAA02210@netcom10.netcom.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9501061945.A12905-0100000@mindvox>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


On Fri, 6 Jan 1995, Mike Duvos wrote:

> drechsau@winternet.com (Mike Horwath) carefully explains all the
> reasons why is it better to have a Netcom account than a
> Winternet account!
> 
>  > I was going to be in, I decided to rest instead.  So sue me
>  > for it.
> 
> Big providers like Netcom have many employees and many machines.
> Things do not screech to a halt when "the guy who owns the
> machine" takes a mental health day. :)
> 

no instead things screech to a halt when the 1000th user gets on each 
client machine


>  > Talk about net.good.will...you stole service after it was
>  > suspended.
> 
> Free service offered to the public cannot be stolen, even by
> prior dissatisfied customers.  Big providers like Netcom don't
> care if someone they don't like logs onto the machine again as
> "guest".
> 

when she was prohibited from that service because of her actions it is.


>  > Tuesday, after being up for 20+ hours and getting a couple
>  > hours sleep, you call ... Again, sue me, this time for being
>  > tired.
> 
> Service at big providers like Netcom doesn't slack off when "the
> guy who owns the machine" misses his nap...
> 

no they slack off whenever they get a chance


>  > Wednesday, I was going to be into work, which you assumed I
>  > would be, ... I decided I was going to take that day off ...
> 
> ...or when "the guy who owns the machine" goes fishing...
> 

...or when 5 trillion hackers descend on the machine and eat it alive


>  > The machine being down was not used as an excuse, but it is
>  > hard to operate like we used to with only one user machine.
> 
> ...or when "the machine" is broken.
> 

...or when "their network" is broken.


>  > That is 2 counts in 2 days (notified on monday, early, of
>  > the spamming, notified on wed of the mass unsolicited
>  > mailings).  Sorry, someone had to put their foot down, and
>  > it happened to be us.
> 
> Big service providers like Netcom don't interfere with customer
> use of the resources they sell, except when network functionality
> is impacted.  Even in such cases, they try to reach an
> understanding with the user, and terminate accounts only as a
> last resort.  Accounts don't vanish when "the guy who owns the
> machine" decides to throw a tantrum.
> 

if a user on netcom violates the AUP, their account would be 
terminated...if those were the terms of the AUP.

It just so happens the AUP of winternet allows for this situation.

its a bit far fetched to call HIS reaction a tantrum.... If anyone's 
screaming for mommy its whats-her-name....



>  > Sorry Carol Anne, but this is a system I administer and I
>  > use the AUP to protect all of us accross the 'net.
> 
> I am sure we will all sleep more soundly knowing that Mike
> Horwath and his tiny pimple of a machine on the Internet are
> "protecting" us.

big is better i guess....

> 
>  > We had talked about the winternet t-shirts and how we would
>  > use the work you did and the monies you would receive as
>  > payment.
> 
> Big providers like Netcom don't make silly little deals with
> customers for T-shirts...
> 

Big providers like Netcom don't have a 'community' to speak of.


>  > Well, no t-shirts have gone out and at this time, I will be
>  > cancelling all orders for them and will redesign them and
>  > have them produced externally to what you have done.  This
>  > is what happens when you hold something over someones head.
> 
> ...or cancel those agreements out of spite when they don't get
> everything done their way.


uhmm, sounds like the deal was cancelled because she didn't 
deliver.,..not out of spite

> 
> You know, I used to use BBS systems a great deal before large
> providers like Netcom began offering personal accounts with
> Internet access at reasonable rates.  A BBS is about as far from
> a common carrier as one can get, and many Sysops disclaim all
> your rights under the ECPA, read private mail, forbid the use of
> PGP, decide what opinions may be expressed on various issues, and
> boot off any user who questions anything they do.  Since the
> Sysop owns the machine, they are legally within their rights to
> act like this, and as long as there are enough users who will put
> up with their behavior, they can run a system.


HAhahaha...if you had any idea what you were talking about, you would 
realize you are totally off base.

Winternet is HARDLY a 'bbs'.  Its a regional internet service....much as 
netcom was before they flooded every city with dialups.

Any professional knows better than to read private mail...and if this is 
so...then they aren't worthy of having a site to run

as for PGP, this is an individual thing....I'm sure mike has no such 
objections...i know here at MindVox we don't...in fact, we installed it 
for the users

Who owns netcom's machines?


> 
> Now that Unix boxes are not much more expensive than PCs used to
> be, every asshole in the world who played Sysop on a BBS now
> envisions himself as Sysadmin of an ISP.  So you have an
> infestation of tiny service providers, running on toy machines,
> that coast along for a few years until the person running them
> either goes bankrupt or gets bored.  I certainly wouldn't
> subscribe to one of these services, because the management
> mentality and problematical service most of them provide is
> exactly what I came to Netcom to get away from.
> 

Once again, you speaketh from your ass....

Netcom is an abomination.....it is the only one of its kind (not counting 
delphi etc, since they were conceived under differnent systems)

Netcom is a Winternet which has grown out of control.

They suck network services off others (irc as one example) and don't take 
responsibilty for the HUGE number of idiots on their service who 
maliciously hack anything they can reach....its totally without 
personality...AND....its slower than molasses...the management is out of 
touch with the users and they are so overloaded with trouble reports, 
they don't know what to do with them.


> Quite frankly, I don't see why Carol doesn't just get a Netcom
> account and stop quibbling with this twit.  Stop letting him
> waste any more of your time and let him play his administrative
> power games with newbies who don't know any better.

Yes....join them carol

join them....
join them....
join them....

be like us....
be like us....
be like us....

we will care for your every need....
we will care for your every need....
we will care for your every need....

look deep into my eyes....
look deep into my eyes....
look deep into my eyes....


This has got to be one of the largest loads of crap I've seen tossed on 
this list in the year and a half i've lurked on it.

I'd love to see a response to this...please!

oh...btw...i don't have ANY connection to winternet, other than knowing 
MANY satisfied customers, and having heard alot about them, as a sysadmin 
for a site in much the same situation.

       ,       /\_-\(:::::::::)/\_-\   matthew e. cable - systems administrator
   .       .  <((_))  MindVox  ((_))>  phantom access technologies inc
      .        \- \/(:::::::::)\- \/   wozzeck@phantom.com