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1995-11-07 - Re: Exporting software doesn’t mean exporting

Header Data

From: “Peter D. Junger” <junger@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
To: Cypherpunks <ohuf@relay.sedat.de>
Message Hash: 7ccc5cdac879d12b3b18489196b4ab7073eeb15119ebaf2ad0f686b30a231f62
Message ID: <m0tCpU8-0004LGC@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
Reply To: <Pine.NXT.3.91.951107144209.255A-100000@oe1>
UTC Datetime: 1995-11-07 15:07:20 UTC
Raw Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:07:20 +0800

Raw message

From: "Peter D. Junger" <junger@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 1995 23:07:20 +0800
To: Cypherpunks <ohuf@relay.sedat.de>
Subject: Re: Exporting software doesn't mean exporting
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NXT.3.91.951107144209.255A-100000@oe1>
Message-ID: <m0tCpU8-0004LGC@pdj2-ra.F-REMOTE.CWRU.Edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain


Oliver Huf writes:

: 
: 
: On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Peter D. Junger wrote:
: 
: > >From Section 120.17 of the ITAR which provides:
: > 
: >  _Export_ means:
: >  . . . .
: >  (4) Disclosing (including oral or visual disclosure) or transfering
: >  technical data to a foreign person, whether in the United States or
: >  abroad . . . .
: 
: The ITAR is U.S.-Law. This only applies (by definition) to US-citizens
: or persons in the U.S.!

Go tell that to General Noriega.  I don't know what definition you are
talking about, but it is not one recognized by the American Courts.

: I think it's a common mistake of many Americans that they believe
: creating law means creating law for the whole world!

: > Go read the section that I quoted again.  Where is there an exception
: > for foreign persons who happen to be abroad?  
 
: It's inherent. You simply can't apply US-law to non-US-citizens outside
: the U.S.!  

The American courts will apply American laws to non-US-citizens who
violate American laws outside the United States, if they can catch
them.  The fact that they may be in the United States because they
were kidnapped or because they were captured outside the United States
in an agressive war that quite clearly violated international law
won't stop them for a moment.  And lord help the foreigner who has 
violated US law outside the US and then tries to immigrate to the
United States.

And the United States is not alone in this.  Look what Israel did to
Eichman.

And didn't Denmark just allow Germany to extradite an American citizen
for nasty things that he wrote and said in the United States?

--
Peter D. Junger--Case Western Reserve University Law School--Cleveland, OH
Internet:  junger@pdj2-ra.f-remote.cwru.edu    junger@samsara.law.cwru.edu

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